I've asserted why I think we should keep minimum wage and keep it statically low, please show possible value of abolishing minimum wage

the employer looks how much value your work adds to a product and than looks how much he HAS to pay you, but if he decides to give you significantly less than your work is worth you can work somewhere else

because someone else will also want your labor

Is that an argument for abolishing min wage, You can do that already

But why should there be an arbitrary amount that the government says 'every job is worth at least this much'?

thats an argument that employers dont make up the wage they pay you

they give you how much it is worth

if you make it illegal to work for less than minimum wage people whose work is worth less wont find work

Ok so abolish min wage what then?

freedom

Tis now your sand box, explain what happens beside shady employers saying "okay you get paid $1 an hour now"

dude why do you think employers pay people more than minimum wage now?

why dont they pay everyone the absolute minimum they legally have to

Rhetorical questions are not arguments for your cause

its not rethorical

why cant they pay everyone as little as legally possible?

they dont so I assume they cant

you seem to fear that they would pay everyone as little as possible without the minimum wage, but they arent doing it now

?

why isnt EVERYONE paid the minimum wage right now?

Idk

What would happen if we did abolish min wage? My guess is that employers would keep paying their employees the same wages because radically altering their employees wages in either direction would fuck with their finances. In which case the situation would roughly stay the same. Some employers would pay more to undercut competition some wouldn't it would cancel out all for MUH FREEDUMB

Im actually struggling with explaining it without writing like 30 sentences. I think the best ways is by opportunity costs. I dont know what your job is but my guess is that there is some job out there that you would do if you got fired. I dont know if its picking apples mawing lawns or maybe you are some kind of professional. What Im trying to get is there are other jobs out there that you could do. The reason you arent doing them now is probably cause they pay less. So your current employer has to pay you more then all other jobs that you are capable of doing else you would leave.

Employees are a scarce resource and as every scarce resource they have a price

Resources dont become worthless unless you put a minimum price on them.

The labor market is another market, just as, say the market for food. You said your employer would like to pay you as little as possible. You are correct of course but we are all trying to pay as little for food as we can but that doesnt mean we can go to the grocer and give him 1 cent for a steak. He wouldnt sell it for that little because there are other people out there that are willing to pay more for it. Its the same with your work. Your employer cant come in tommrrow and offer you 1$ an hour for your work because there is someone out there who is willing to pay you more.

tl;dr: selling your labor to an employer is still subject to the laws of supply and demand

All of this I'm fine with and agree with, I just think this is a non issue. Theres no way on god's green earth that the min wage could be abolished, pragmatically we should vote on keep it small

If its abolished that's fine I think I'll be unaffected, if it stays that's fine too I'm already unaffected

but it harms poor ppl

But I hate that it goes up and up and up and up and up

as long as the minimum wage is lower than your wage your job wont be effected as much, but it sucks for people who could only find work under the minimum wage

It screws over anyone whose market value is below the minimum. And the higher you make it the more people that includes.

and those below wont get training on the job, the only thing that would allow them to get a higher pay in the long run

Jon seems to just be arguing that it isn't pragmatic to abolish the minimum wage, even if it's a smart thing to do

I'd argue that its the right thing to do

Pragmatic probably isn't the right word. Just the public perception of such an act wouldn't be viewed favorably

Nothing that is morally right is politically easy to get through congress

Even if it's good for everyone involved to abolish it, so many people are convinced that a minimum wage is helpful that you'll be painted as badevilwrong and it'll never happen. But that's kind of irrelevant to the debate depending on how principled you want to be

But what is politics for if not to use political capital to get just laws in place?

Politics = poly meaning many and ticks meaning blood sucking insects