there is a market for services/work just like there is a market for goods

I say that the employer and prospective employee both determine it. The employer determines the value of the job, and offer that as pay, and if anyone thinks it's a fair wage for the job, then the employees will agree to it by applying for it.

@wolfman1911 sounds like a pipedream

Or paragon of employment but it never actually happens that way

It is certainly a pipe dream while we have a nanny state deciding what all jobs are worth.

And I have no illusions that it would work out perfectly in real life, but having a minimum wage doesn't either, so. . .

How else has it worked in your experience?

People are selfish and higher ups think "how much do I **HAVE** to pay people?" Do employers actually think how much is THIS person worth? That's an almost impossible feat to figure for EVERY single applicant

The employer isn't asking how much the person is worth, that is for the prospective employee to determine. The employer decides how much the job is worth.

I meant

The employer is judging every applicant to see if their self assigned worth matches up with the employer assigned worth of the job

Ok

I think we've gotten off track

I've asserted why I think we should keep minimum wage and keep it statically low, please show possible value of abolishing minimum wage

the employer looks how much value your work adds to a product and than looks how much he HAS to pay you, but if he decides to give you significantly less than your work is worth you can work somewhere else

because someone else will also want your labor

Is that an argument for abolishing min wage, You can do that already

But why should there be an arbitrary amount that the government says 'every job is worth at least this much'?

thats an argument that employers dont make up the wage they pay you

they give you how much it is worth

if you make it illegal to work for less than minimum wage people whose work is worth less wont find work

Ok so abolish min wage what then?

freedom

Tis now your sand box, explain what happens beside shady employers saying "okay you get paid $1 an hour now"

dude why do you think employers pay people more than minimum wage now?

why dont they pay everyone the absolute minimum they legally have to

Rhetorical questions are not arguments for your cause

its not rethorical

why cant they pay everyone as little as legally possible?

they dont so I assume they cant

you seem to fear that they would pay everyone as little as possible without the minimum wage, but they arent doing it now

?

why isnt EVERYONE paid the minimum wage right now?

Idk

What would happen if we did abolish min wage? My guess is that employers would keep paying their employees the same wages because radically altering their employees wages in either direction would fuck with their finances. In which case the situation would roughly stay the same. Some employers would pay more to undercut competition some wouldn't it would cancel out all for MUH FREEDUMB

Im actually struggling with explaining it without writing like 30 sentences. I think the best ways is by opportunity costs. I dont know what your job is but my guess is that there is some job out there that you would do if you got fired. I dont know if its picking apples mawing lawns or maybe you are some kind of professional. What Im trying to get is there are other jobs out there that you could do. The reason you arent doing them now is probably cause they pay less. So your current employer has to pay you more then all other jobs that you are capable of doing else you would leave.

Employees are a scarce resource and as every scarce resource they have a price

Resources dont become worthless unless you put a minimum price on them.

The labor market is another market, just as, say the market for food. You said your employer would like to pay you as little as possible. You are correct of course but we are all trying to pay as little for food as we can but that doesnt mean we can go to the grocer and give him 1 cent for a steak. He wouldnt sell it for that little because there are other people out there that are willing to pay more for it. Its the same with your work. Your employer cant come in tommrrow and offer you 1$ an hour for your work because there is someone out there who is willing to pay you more.

tl;dr: selling your labor to an employer is still subject to the laws of supply and demand

All of this I'm fine with and agree with, I just think this is a non issue. Theres no way on god's green earth that the min wage could be abolished, pragmatically we should vote on keep it small