You can’t just assert moral claims as an axiom.

>nobody could solve the problem

does the killing of the ones who are suffering constitute a positive or negative outcome

Yeah they're expecting me to solve it for them. I'm not claiming morality has to be absolute. You guys are.

irt's another gray line on the sand

@ThePortugueseGuy that can't be answered in a vacuum.

My moral standards line up relatively close to modern Christianity.

I'd argue mine are stricter.

can you DJ_anuz explai why is the God of the old testament different of the God of the new

NT: turn the other cheek, sacrifice yourself for the greater good, do unto others as you would have done into you.

OT: an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Genocide is okay, because you need land and have been oppressed, do an ordinance even slightly out of line and I'll kill you.

It's why the Jews expected a conquer when Christ came. Not a pacifist.

That doesn't answer the question of why we christians think that is the same God

i want you to steel man the christian argument if you can

I can do it for you

The strongest steel man argument I know of is that the Jews at that time couldn't handle the gospel. Moses was supposed to bring the gospel Christ taught to the Israelites, but when he found them worshipping the golden calf, broke the tablets, and went back up to commune with God. That's why the were given the lesser law, or the Levitical Law. The law that Christ taught was the law held by priests after the order of Melchizedek. So God didn't change, but his people did.

I think you are a bit far

look from my stand point

@DJ_Anuz That's an interesting argument. I have nothing to contribute except that at the moment tbh

I'm one of those nerds that gets a hard on from Leviticus Numbers and Deuteronomy.

(You will need to apologize the broken English in here)It goes something like this, God made us perfect. We decide to sin against God. God always knew this and made us any way. God always had a redemption plan for humanity. God himself would die on a cross for us.

That does track

Much of the Bible is humans screwing up somehow

It still has a glaring problem imo. How do we not know that the law we currently have is only a stepping stone to the true gospel? Christ intended to have the 12 apostles continue calling new apostles to replace themselves.

Christians have to accept that their current moral standards are likely inferior to what would be revealed when Christ comes again.

And that still doesn't instill confidence in the consistency of Christian/religious morals if it's dependent on what morality humans can accept.

Now God need to create the circumstances for Himself to enter the world and die. Is the land where I chose to be born occupied we need to vacate that. is this people ruling over the people that i chose to be born i need to free them

so what you are seeing in the old testament is God messing with normal day to day life in order to die on a cross

now Christ already die for everyone there is no need of overruling

But it was not in condemnation that He needed to act was to put in motion His plan.

I don't have confidence in that ends justify the means mentality.

what does that sentence even mean?

Ends justify means is a term used to describe people that will commit any number of terrible things to accomplish their goal.

God of the universe was willing to die for his creatures and to give us a path to redemption. How can you say "i WouLdn't dO It thAt WaY?"

It's the things prior to Christ coming that are the means I can't justify.

It's only moving the pieces arround

I don't believe that any God that views it's sentient creations as pieces to move around is worthy of my worship, nor does he love his creations.

I wouldn't harm my children just because they disobey me.

Yes. but your children are not condemned to eternal damnation if you don't do nothing. God child were

which is a situation He created, ultimately

why?

According to modern Christian tenants, (outside of Mormons that I'm aware of) anyone killed in their sins are cut off from repentance.