He lost me at that suggestion

@Deleted User I’ve been concerned about the environmental movement for awhile. The way they look at climate change is akin to a doomsday cult. It’s mostly boomers who go completely insane though, so it may not be as big of a deal. It seems as if boomers are the only ones pulling crazy stunts.

That’s what it sounds like

But from the make up of their marches it’s... I dunno

The thing I find most hilarious is that the same people would have lived through the time when _global cooling_ was all the rage among climate scientists

And it’s like... they also manipulated data then, what makes the bungled up models this time around so different?

I think the environmental movement was one of the first secular movements to become religious. To further explain, it means the movement adopted many of the traits of religion despite not being a traditional religion. I suspect this has a lot to do with most people needing religion and finding something else to fill that gap in their life.

^totally agree.

For that to be true wouldn't such behaviour have to be nonexistent amongst the religious?

Not necessarily.

Why wouldn't that be necessary? If the issue is need for religion, being religious should solve the problem

It’s not that simple. People believe in false idols all the time. Just read the Bible and see how the Jews choose immediately went back to worshiping a golden calf right after God let them out the desert. The point is that it any given point in a persons life they are going to idolize something as if it were a God and it becomes their God.

Okay but then the idea is that if they worship God then they're fine, no? No existential crisis, no clinging to socjus, socialism etc

How much exposure to religion have you really had?

I've been reading through the Bible and my neighbours when I was younger were religious. We stayed at their place after school while my mom was working. I went to tae kwon do at a church, I've been to churches, I've talked at length with Christians

People can claim that they are worshiping God, but it is possible for people to turn away and idolize other things more than God.

Isn't that a bit circular?

Ok.

I think these same people would always have been like this no matter. The difference is the target and consequences.

It’s not circular. If it isn’t God, then it is something else. That’s not circular

"People without religion have X problem
But religious people have that problem
They weren't religious (or the right kind)
How so?
Well they had that problem"
Is how it reads to me

I would say the issue is meaning, and while religion *can* solve that problem, it doesn't always

I don't know about other people, but my point is that the things people are putting in the place of religion seem to be government based. Things that tend to lead to mass graves on an industrial scale. Religion has it problems, but it can be managed. Government based worship lead to massive death. seem like an easy choice to me.

And I'm not religious

The point is not that religious people can’t get crazy with things like social justice or socialism. The idea of putting idols before God is not an alien concept in Christianity. What that means is that a Christian is putting something else in his or her life above God. This means that at the time the Christian is We’re shipping something other than God

Yeah, there’s truth to that.

But that comes back to "the issue isn't lack of religion". If someone can be a Christian and fall for idolatry, then Christ is not the wholesale solution to idolatry

It's ultimately an issue of meaning and despair, which *can* be solved in this way but it isn't the only way, nor is it a surefire way

I'm not seeing a secular movement solving the situation

Why does it have to be a movement?

Also tbh Peterson's talks have secular applicability

So we don't get a massive movement towards communism and death

What establishes the foundation for secular meaning to life?

Ultimately the individual does, to be blunt. But that's the case either way

So, self worship.

@Beemann Do you think secular people lean more towards socialism or individualism?

How is it self worship?
@grant I think it depends on the era, to be perfectly honest

Yay the world’s gonna be full of solipsists

Sounds awesome (not)

Politics has this weird little collectivist/individualist push/pull

On a weird sorta off topic note