Message from @jorick2u
Discord ID: 501728854822354944
I was interested to learn about economics and ended up with "le trump is bad!!! wolrd edning!!!!! moral outrage!1!!"
anyone that advocates for raising minimum wage in any of the major cities in the US is a NPC because only someone who doesn't think would advocate for it
Well people that work full time shoudnt be on foodstamps
You should be able to live off a 36 hour workweek
People should demand higher wages from individual employers, not by government fiat
I wouldnt say its that simple
Why do you think we have unions?
For example here in the EU if they would abolish minimum wage we wouldnt be able to compete with the eastern europeans
So you're saying that eastern European countries would just take all of your business by monopolizing all the resources you have?
No im saying why hire a dutch person when a romanian will do the work for the fraction of what i would need to live from
So you don't want to sacrifice the safety you enjoy from your quality of life in order to root out government corruption that does more harm than good for the overall economy, because there are others who would gladly do your job for less if allowed to.
Would it not be better to either inform those Romanians that they have reason to demand more from the employer, and set up unions to ensure that employers meet the demands of providing a reasonable quality of life, then demanding that the government do so?
The real problem here is the romanian being able to take the jobs in the first place. I also would say that telling them that in our standards theyre underpaid is worthless. They know that. Im saying that working a workweek should provide you with enough money to survive on
And what "reason" do they have to demand more
Because they can and they should. When you say "Enough money to survive on" what standard are you setting here? If they can survive on less, are they not still surviving? Or are they taking advantage of something else in order to make out better than you on less? Is that something else also illegal?
Okay, a bread here is a euro. A bread in romania is 50 eurocents. My family needs 10 breads to survive on =10 euros. The Romanian family needs 8 breads in Romania and 2 in the Netherlands =6 euros
And yes a lot of these people illegaly live with sometimes 10 people in the same house drastically reducing their rent
The standard im setting is that you should be able to pay for rent,electricity,gas,water,food in a small town in the netherlands
In a system with a social security net you need to have a minimum wage to get people to do the actually usefull stuff, in a system without a social safety net you need a minimum wage to make sure that people can afford to live
And i dont think unions are the solution like i dont think charity can replace a social safety net. Peole will fall between the cracks, often by mistakes they didnt make
People will fall between the cracks regardless, man. You can't save everyone. Some people will do their best to bring about their own destruction. Some people will fall apart. Some people will have awful things happen to them by no fault of their own.
It's fine to want to help people, but there are some who just can't be helped, and artificially trying to leverage the economy doesn't help you economically in the long run, it pushes business away beyond the area where the government controls the wage, all the while raising inflation and cost of living.
Once it's in place, your only hope is to then nationalize the resources to prevent companies from exploiting them and shipping them elsewhere once it becomes cheaper to do so than pay to process them locally, which will inevitably happen as CoL and inflation increase to keep up with the rising minimum wage.
Col?
Cost of Living
👌
If everyone could agree to a minimum wage, sure
We could maybe stem this problem
But the fact that people are willing to do this shady shit to circumvent it just means it winds up causing more problems than it fixes
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to provide for themselves or their families if they work hard
But I don't think a mandated minimum wage is the way to go about it. You're giving people an excuse to cheat the system instead of incentivizing good business practices, and unless you're willing to punish the people cheating the system ruthlessly to ensure they don't, I just don't see it working.
People always have a excuse to cheat the system. If i would work illegally i could probably get 1.5x what i would get legally
But ill admit that im quite on the fence on the issue, well talk about it sometime when im not in the middle of math class
That's fair, man
every time a convo about raising minimum wage happens someone has to say "if we abolished minimum wage"
nobody should be advocating for that
that would be insane
The basic reason why we need it enshrined in law is because there are factors that prevent people from starting businesses—whether that be from governmental regulation or large corporations pushing out competition via buying all the land, etc.
But raising it is another story entirely. There are plenty of jobs in the US that companies can't fill full-time positions because of the regulatory burden (not minimum wage.) Minimum wage is meant to be a stop-gap from abusive company practices, not as an insurance that the worker will be paid money.
Raising minimum wage does two things: incentivizes companies to automate faster & hire fewer full-time workers. New York and Portland raised their minimum wage and it was a fucking disaster.
https://www.epi.org/publication/the-high-road-seattle-labor-market-and-the-effects-of-the-minimum-wage-increase-data-limitations-and-methodological-problems-bias-new-analysis-of-seattles-minimum-wage-incr/
At the least, minimum wage should be tied to inflation.
Here its tied to the wages of union jobs