do you think people should get paid for their work?

are you on a phone?

yes, i do. but if bosses have all the power to decide to what extent in what manner they get paid, that's exploitation

who do you think should decide what they get paid then?

by and large, the local municipalities and democratic unions

well the problem with that is there is no motivation to do any actual work

people will just keep voting themselves more and more money without producing anything

which isn't going to work out very well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-i1C8_lqNA

because there won't be any actual money to pay anyone if that company doesn't produce any product that they can sell

it sounds to me like you're stating as a rule that we think "more money" is the only solution we can think of.
that's honestly pretty pessimistic, dude

what?

whatever you are going to negotiate fo it's the same

more benefits, less hours

whatever

ping pong tables at work

the point is that none of it is connected to anyones job performance.

you are just voting for stuff

so no one is gonig to actually do there job

i think the dead spaniards are rolling in their graves as we speak

that's not a response

you are denying history with your speculations on human nature.
everyone in the c.n.t. did their job, enthusiastically

why can't we?

well explain to me how that worked then

why would anyone do there job enthusiastically when there is no reward for doing so?

if I was working hard I would quickly become bitter by those who worked aorund me who slacked off and didn't face consequences

that's or I would just started slacking off myself, let some other chump do the work well I just kick back and collect

what's any one persons individual motivation to do anything?

if you can explain that maybe you ahve got something

if not then well...

collective ownership of the means of production through worker's syndicates, culture that honestly found the concept of simply voting for more money asinine and cyclical. they believed in worker's control over their own resources in a way that is humanitarian.
it's amazing how well people can adapt when when they have a cause that they believe in

lo, a cause

you can't force everyone to believe in your causes

look though

so you are saying to workers just own the business

you know you can jsut do that within capitalism

that's right, i can't.
everyone who doesn't can just leave

you can jsut start you own buiness and set it up like that, with profit sharing

leave what? the country?

yea, but i hear it's difficult to sustain. i'm not in a position where i can just start my own business anyway

or leave the country for that matter