@Deleted User So it wasn't present at all during war communism, thank you for confirming that.

And the Scandinavian countries call themselves social democracies

@buyXRBpls Isn't that a no true scotsman though?

@buyXRBpls I mean, how do you really know that demsocs aren't equivalent to socdems?

@Deleted User You claimed the NEP was introduced a decade after the Civil War ended. That's false. The Russian Civil War lasted from 1917 to 1922.

it's like thinking hitler was actually a socialist just because he called himself one

@🖤 Limeboo 🖤 Well we know that he wasn't because of the evidence that was presented, (And the fact that he didn't actually call himself a marxist socialist).

Your historiography is severely lacking.

What evidence is there that these countries aren't socdems?

@Deleted User soc dems want a welfare state to reduce the income equality that comes with capitalism while dem socs want to transition from capitalism to socialism through election

@Deleted User I may have been wrong in my statement that the civil war ended a decade before, but it still stands that NEP was never a measure to help war communism, and was just the introduction of capitalism back into russia, at this point, you really are nit picking.

@buyXRBpls But, that never really happens does it? There has never been in an instance where what you call dem socs have turned a country marxist socialist through elections, instead they became identical to that of soc dems, so really, what difference is there in the end?

You are right that they usually become soc dems but there is a difference

@Deleted User That's wrong. War Communism left the economy in near-ruin. The NEP was implemented as a direct result of the poor shape the economy was in. It was specifically designed to boost the economy.

@buyXRBpls Not really.

I am not "nit-picking" anything. I'm stating facts.

Where are yours?

@Deleted User So war communism failed spectacularly, and lenin introduced capitalism because he thought it would help the country even though he fought a civil war to rid the country of capitalism..... really makes you think.

@Deleted User What kind of argument was that?

@buyXRBpls What difference is there?

Dem socs want socialism still but will most likely compromise with soc dems

How would you know what they want? In the end, they just end up as soc dems.

@Deleted User That wasn't an argument. I'm still waiting on one. Can you actually formulate one? And Lenin introduced the NEP because he knew it would help the failing economy. The NEP was introduced while the Civil War was still going on.

It was a necessary measure, and without it: The newly-formed workers state may not have survived.

The revolution was still very much in its infancy.

@Deleted User Thanks for admitting it then. And he introduced it as it was coming to an end, by the time 1921 rolled around, the white army was in far east russia hanging around vladiostok starving, it was pretty much already done and over with. If lenin did introduce capitalism, and fully advocated for it, even to the last day of his life, then really, you have to question if he was marxist at all, stalin proved that the union was capable of surviving without it.... granted millions died under stalin, but had he not done what he had done, it is likely that the union would have collapsed into civil war once again, and this time, it would have been likely that the union would have been totally annihilated.

@Deleted User Yes, I admitted that you didn't provide an argument. And the Bolsheviks were fighting the Whites until '23. In fact, the White Army put up quite a resistance during the "Yakut Revolt" where they took Yakutsk and destroyed a Red Army garrison which was stationed there. Not to mention the Bolsheviks were also fighting Islamic guerillas at the same time. And Lenin was never an "advocate" for capitalism, he was a Revolutionary Socialist in the Orthodox Marxist tradition. Again, the NEP was introduced as an expedient measure. And Stalin did away with the NEP in 1928, after it had already enabled a significant amount of economic growth and fulfilled it's purpose of boosting an economy that had been ravaged by the effects of War Communism.

Oh MP

You are adorable

Yet the enemy...

@Mosin Nagant weeb

@Deleted User Yes I am, your point?

dis gon b gud

I hope.

@Mosin Nagant I'm sick of you frikkin' weebs and bronies. You give the Marxist community a terrible name and you should feel utterly ashamed of yourselves.

But it'll most likely be- yeah ofc

It's the same rant.

To be honest mcstubbs by now I think they copy and paste each other's complaints

i just expected a debate about anime and capitalism tbh

Naaaah