but nowadays industries don't play a big role, most people are working in service/finantial jobs I think

they do

and the means of production aren't that easy to take hold of as stopping the production line

Did @Mr. X die of ligma?

maybe

he will surely resurrect

@catholic without *workers*, who will do the *work*?

It really isn't that complicated. The welfare of Capitalists is dependent upon the efforts of the worker, although they gain a disproportionately greater product from the collective effort of the workers

but what would be the achievable version of this, as the way stopping immigration and deporting illegals is to an ethnostate

that's true for big business, not so much small

Are you talking about illegal workers?

No, I'm talking about short term goals that would get to these ideals

If you want to build an ethnostate, start by closing borders

If you want to build a socialist state, start by

Nazbol gang

minimum wage?

lol

*living wage

minimum wage is not enough to live off of for many people

especially in popular towns and cities

@catholic "The means of production belong to the whole of society. Every member of society, performing a certain part of the socially necessary work, receives a certificate from society to the effect that he has done a certain amount of work. And with this certificate he receives from the public store of consumer goods a corresponding quantity of products. After a deduction is made of the amount of labor which goes to the public fund, every worker, therefore, receives from society as much as he has given to it."
(Lenin, V. I. (1917), The State and the Revolution (p. 54), Marxists.org)

yes

Therefore, the harder you work, the more you are rewarded.
Under capitalism, the harder you work, the more your boss is rewarded

How does that work for scientists or entrepeneurs? I mean there's a lot of ways capitalism builds and invents goods you can't quantify. Starting a business basically. I know wage slavery prevents 99% from actually building some capital themselves, wouldn't it be good to have a system that takes the burden off that and tries to use people's ambition to make society better

The more they research and discover/the more they contribute to society, the more they are rewarded

There is no incentive to work harder under capitalism

Also, the argument of incentive under capitalism is extremely ironic

yea

yea

Making enough money to build a business? I'm throwing big words to try to ask how would things get better without competition

by things I mean technology

Build a business?

Where would you get that money

There is no private business in socialism

true

I'm talking about incentives under capitalism

what do you guys think about bolsonaro?

The labourer is paid the minimum wage, ie, that wage in which to keep the worker in bare existence as a worker.

You only earn as much as your boss feels you'd be satisfied with

Any further, and they'd be doing so at the expense of their own profits