Message from @Viτriol²

Discord ID: 651352384341016588


2019-12-03 09:09:11 UTC  

What I see is that you're willing to give some people (in this case a perceived majority of people) a monopoly on force in order to undermine the economic pursuits of others (in this case a perceived minority of people), and I believe you justify that by saying that said economic pursuit is more destructive overall.

2019-12-03 09:11:00 UTC  

I'm not saying, however. That there should be no limits to government force, but I think there should be limits to what corporations and actors in the marketplace can and cannot do.

2019-12-03 09:12:32 UTC  

I also think there should be protections, as many as possible, levvied towards the minority.

2019-12-03 09:13:11 UTC  

I see your point, I'm just wondering why you think said force monopoly that undermines the free market is preferable to a few destroyed buildings

2019-12-03 09:14:36 UTC  

It's not only about those buildings, it's about the cultural heritage, and the monuments to our history.

2019-12-03 09:15:31 UTC  

A lot of historical monuments have been destroyed by people who believe that they should hold a monopoly on force

2019-12-03 09:15:58 UTC  

Absolutely.

2019-12-03 09:16:07 UTC  

But every monopoly of force is not equal.

2019-12-03 09:16:11 UTC  

In contrast, I don't think I can remember anywhere near as many cases where a profit-oriented mind has done that

2019-12-03 09:16:36 UTC  

I mean, I make no difference between an old woman's home that have been in her family for generations and the arc'd triumph.

2019-12-03 09:17:17 UTC  

Lately a lot of historic statues have been destroyed or vandalized, and the people who've done so had no interest in purchasing them beforehand

2019-12-03 09:17:46 UTC  

I think the consent of the governed; the majority should be represented when the community has contentions about a move.

2019-12-03 09:17:46 UTC  

In fact I would argue people who are willing to put up the money to buy a historic statue are far less keen on destroying it, speaking on average

2019-12-03 09:18:13 UTC  

No matter what that move is.

2019-12-03 09:18:17 UTC  

If that is true, then how effective is that regulation? I see nothing being done about those statues that have been destroyed

2019-12-03 09:19:57 UTC  

I agree that that is terrible, but it has nothing to do with my argument. I would argue that those were systems of organization that failed in upholding the will of the people, or perhaps the will of the people was with the iconoclasts who destroyed them and in that case I would be in the minority that wants history to be preserved.

2019-12-03 09:20:20 UTC  

I think the will of the people is either upheld by the people or it isn't upheld at all

2019-12-03 09:20:41 UTC  

I like to draw a comparison to Star Wars under Disney

2019-12-03 09:21:18 UTC  

The problem is that there is a clear contrast between anarchy and monopoly of force.

2019-12-03 09:21:33 UTC  

And a clear lifecycle for a human organization.

2019-12-03 09:21:49 UTC  

Meaning it grows exponentially until it is unable to.

2019-12-03 09:22:17 UTC  

I'm not sure what you mean

2019-12-03 09:23:02 UTC  

If you dismantle government; business would take on the mantles of government and become like government.

2019-12-03 09:23:26 UTC  

Because there would be a vacuum.

2019-12-03 09:23:47 UTC  

I know, and I accept that fact, but that's not a moral argument but a practical one

2019-12-03 09:24:10 UTC  

As far as I am concerned, no moral philosophy that isn't concerned with practical application is of much use to anyone.

2019-12-03 09:24:31 UTC  

I beg to differ

2019-12-03 09:24:44 UTC  

The practicality of spreading ideas is well documented

2019-12-03 09:25:32 UTC  

I mean why advocate a position that is impractical and not applicable to real-life?

2019-12-03 09:25:49 UTC  

You never know what comes next, everything starts with an idea

2019-12-03 09:26:26 UTC  

Why not try to find out to what extent an idea is applicable and practical and advocate for that?

2019-12-03 09:26:37 UTC  

We have done that already

2019-12-03 09:26:48 UTC  

I think it's time to continue thinking

2019-12-03 09:28:16 UTC  

I mean always keep thinking, and I can spout non-sensical overblown straight out the top of my dome ideas as well. And in a discussion we can try to reach the reasonable middle-ground, and I can try to make a point with an overly ideal narrative.

2019-12-03 09:28:58 UTC  

But as far as my actual political position goes will always be the one I think would work the best when applied.

2019-12-03 09:29:58 UTC  

I don't know how my idea is overblown non-sensical

2019-12-03 09:30:17 UTC  

I was talking about my own, haha.

2019-12-03 09:30:26 UTC  

My point stands though.

2019-12-03 09:30:36 UTC  

I'm making two arguments

2019-12-03 09:30:45 UTC  

One is that I think all initiation of force is immoral

2019-12-03 09:30:50 UTC  

Thus the government is immoral