I would disagree, I think capitalism is a toolset that allows people to work together to achieve their goals. I see money as being a store of social credit in that regard, but I’d like to have a discussion around that space and I’m open to ideas because I agree that there are things that need to be improved.

How is it any more dehumanizing than any other ideology?

I’ll need to take a rain check on that though as I’ve gotta go to work. Cheers for the discussion though all

Well, to continue with the rest of you, I'd argue that from the beginning it was dehumanizing.

No matter your opinions on feudalism, you had people ripped from country life, which was arguably not that bad for its time, and put into sweatshops.

I'm not arguing we bring back all of feudalism, but it makes you think. Capitalism produced the sweatshops and made traditional living unsustainable.

Capitalism is based on competition, thus making it the most brutal of the three major economic systems. Corporatism is like a mix of capitalism and socialism, it focuses more on class collaboration than competition, private firms are still allowed to exist but they must serve in the interest of the state. Socialism, once it evolves into communism, will have no classes to speak of, at least in theory.

Corporatism is interesting, but there's been problems in the last hundred years with it not being very effective.

I'm interested in distributism

See, I don't hate private property. It's always existed and it should always exist. However, there was something we lost with Capitalism that we had in the middle ages.

Fascist corporatism hasn't been used in the last 50 or so years.

The closest we have gotten since then is social democracy

Was it perfect? No of course not, but it was arguably better than capitalism.

Arguably so

I mean, I'm no economist, but people seemed happier before capitalism. Back then, people had private property, but it wasn't a cashgrab free for all. Standards for trade were a given, and you had guilds to moderate the skilled tradesmen. It was also less centralized, everthing was. You didn't have to worry about multi-national coporations controlling everything.

What seems like a good option to me is the decentralization of distributism. We don't go for any kind of socialism, but we decentralize as much as we can. More local businesses, more co-ops, and more family owned small businesses.

And when you need factories, they ought to be locally owned and controlled.

Capitalism has never really been started, it was just labeled as such in the industrial period

I think that's as silly as saying "Communism has never been tried." We know it hasn't been achieved, but it sure as Hell as been tried.

Well then you didn't get what I said

Well it seems like you're claiming we never had capitalism.

Nope

I'm saying it had no fixed start, you said people seemed happier before capitalism but when was that?

What marks, to you, the start of capitalism?

The Industrial revolution seems to be a vague start, but it's like the Renaissance, there's no hard start.

I'd argue it started much earlier, around the 16th to 17th century, and banking clans can be traced back all the way to the 14th century

But the industrial revolution was the beginning of the capitalism we know today

Banks gay lol

Seems plausible, although the banking isn't all of capitalism.

Point is, it has played a part in destroying traditional society.

Yes

Anyways, when i get off from work i will continue this. State socialism can be socialism, but state ownership of property in and of itself is not, an assumption that this arguments rests upon

>state socialism
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k

@Bird Wizard huh

hey guys just an anti vaxxer here, trying to find some fellow manpower for the anti vax union, father of 2 here one of them is vaxxed and has down syndrome- the other isn't vax'd and is perfectly normal

I don't understand why people vaccinate their children on and on again even after they get disabilities

***Ban please***

for what

its politics