The key issue with illegal immigration is not minor procedural violation but people being sold in to slavery and illegal trafficking of people, guns, money, drugs etc. It's a wholly different problem

> They come in to the U.S. to work legally, and stay in their legal place of work, they don't immediately go to illegal labor farms
Right, so when the company knows that you no longer have a work visa (Which you have to show them to even start the job), they are required by law to stop allowing you to work there

Granted it's not something I want to have happen, but it's nowhere near the scale of the problem as human slavery and drug and gun trafficking and so on

oh not even close to half, your estimate for the amount above had its upper bound higher than the lower bound from the estimates i found which are between 30-40 million

500,000 people overstaying their visas temporarily to have them renewed (mostly) is not really the same as at least 11-22 million people staying here illegally

If you stay here illegally, that's fake paperwork, for a fake house, fake insurance, fake driver's license, fake everything, or, you are off grid entirely on some god forsaken farm in a fake modern day hacienda

There's a substantial difference with living on a dirt floor as an undocumented worker and having documents that temporarily are held up

And this issue is easily resolved with more judges which the left won't vote for

> people who overstay their visas make up half a million per year, and it's resolved every year
I'm still struggling to find that

as they want an underclass of people to clean their toilets and make them cheap avacodoes, while declaring the other side racist and fascist

it's in your source I believe

That's the generally accepted figure

This is a left-wing source

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-10-25/complicated-reasons-why-some-people-overstay-their-us-visas

more judges, less visas, and a much stricter crack down on that expiry date.

for me I don't mind the grace period as the system is often overwhelmed. People often reapply for visas the exact day they get here and 7 years later still don't get them renewed as the system is just that bogged down

Ice should be knocking on the door the second it turns midnight unless you have a new visa ticking away in the system and it is at least 2/3 through the process.

more judges to handle the backlog of old cases as well as streamline new cases is a good ideea

Nope, still unable to find it

Oh you linked something else

the grace proccess to me makes a lot of sense as it's basically, 7 years + x time, and in addition gives you the ability to make up for the lack in the system

The basic problem is that the system is so backlogged people, by no fault of their own, end up overstaying their visas

the democrats, for wahtever reason, have blocked attempts to fix this

it's kind of disturbing

their hope is they can lump these people in with illegal immigrants who came here illegally, but really it just doesn't work

also people who overstay their legal visas tend to get them renewed rather quickly afterwards, or get deported

So, it doesn't build up every year, unlike illegal immigrants who come here and stay here

Saying they are X percnetage of "new illegal immigrants per year" is irrelevant as they don't stay here illegally

We also don't have perfectly accurate records of illegal crossings as they, are illegal

For the same reason we don't have perfectly accurate records on all illegal drug deals or gun deals etc.

comparing people who overstayed their visas to estimates on illegal crossing is thus difficult to do

one is a nearly exact figure vs. something which is merely estimated

thus depending on what estimate you use, it changes

it's subjective, it could be between 11 and 40 million, some place it at much lower levels

Realistically a minimum of 11-22 million are problably here

and visa overstays are managed within the year

meaning, even if they make up half of all *new* illegal immigrants, they don't make up half of all permanent illegal immigrants

it's at best misleading

i will agree its not a useful part of the conversation, but its one that has to be dealt with anyway. putting a limit on anything but short order work visas, increasing the pool of available judges, and enforcing the end of the visa more strictly will end with a decrease illigal immigration. so, we may as well do that long with the wall. nothing stops us from doing many solutions at once and taking a large chunk out of the probelm.

> also people who overstay their legal visas tend to get them renewed rather quickly afterwards, or get deported
Your own evidence doesn't support that. If we look on Wikipedia at illegal immigrant population it states: "Since about 2014, most illegal immigrants living in the U.S. have been long-term residents. In 2014, about two-thirds (66%) had been in the U.S. for ten years or more, while just 14% had been in the U.S. for less than five years."

The report that PRI reports on states:
> The report specifies that U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) processed 50,437,278 in-scope nonimmigrant admissions at U.S. air and sea POEs who were expected to depart in FY16—of which 739,478 overstayed their admission, resulting in a total overstay rate of 1.47 percent. Of the more than 739,000 overstays, DHS determined 628,799 were suspected “in-country” overstays, resulting in a suspected in-country overstay rate of 1.25 percent. An individual who is a suspected in-country overstay has no recorded departure, while an out-of-country overstay has a recorded departure that occurred after their lawful admission period expired.