Because then it would actually be relevant question.

@whiic you can try a little harder. The USS Liberty is relevant because it brings into question the Israeli loyalty to the United States

50 years ago?

You do hold quite a grudge.

50 years ago is seminal to the US-Israeli experience. It's shocking that Israelis would attack a US boat even though the US had done so much for Israel

I think there's better examples of lack of loyalty, like Israel spying US trade secrets in recent decades.

Israel is not a good ally. Period.

@whiic You do for something that happened 80 years ago

USS Liberty is a bad example.

@Monstrous Moonshine Did 6 million die on USS Liberty?

Heck, the ship didn't even sink.

You're being disingenuous here

<:pepelaugh:544857300179877898> <:pepegun:588019479401726001> <:mutt:462285123421732874>

You should just accept that the USS Liberty is messed up.

And it was a borderline case to begin with... meaning it did sail close to Israeli waters during active military conflict.

Accepting that the USS Liberty situation is bad is not the same thing as embracing full on Nazism

Even snake sides with me that there are better and much newer examples.

And snake is a fucking sperg.

Jonathon Pollard and Lavon Affair are better to bring up than USS Liberty

It's not because it's dated, it's because we have asked it many times now

Also because the intention is difficult to prove

Sperg snake

MGS7

Yeah, there are better reasons to suspect Israel loyalty than USS Liberty back in the day when there was active chaos going around (i.e chance of mistake increasing, and no long history of US-Israel alliance).

I think modern violations of trust from Israel are far worse than ancient ones.

Because what Israel does now is taking a piss on **all of the decades of alliance** with USA.

Those are best points.

There are a lot of counter points to it, like the USS liberty, Lavon Affair, Jonathon Pollard, Apollo Affair, Israeli lobby, Dancing Israelis and their role in 9/11, Samson Option, dual allegiance of Jewish-American politicians, Israel selling our tech to China etc.

Not to mention, the recent revelation that Israel has been planting spy devices near the White House: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house-spying-devices-1491351

@Monstrous Moonshine Charlie Kirk debunked "dual alliance" with USA compared to Israel.

By embracing Israel and calling USA "just a placeholder".

Dual alliance is an understatement for some of neocons and evangelocons.

Yeah true

I think the biggest irony is that Israel still isn't part of NATO, yet USA respect them more than those who have formal defense treaty with them.

Not that Trump is in any way in the wrong demanding other NATO states to also hold up to the agreement in terms of percentage of budget being spent on their local military (so they can actually be useful to NATO if needed).

Finland far exceeds those requirements and were aren't part of NATO. Most of NATO members are freeloaders.

(I guess the reason we have high defense budget is because we are **not** in NATO, meaning we actually have to fend of Russia **again** and without allies to rely on.)

Yeah it’s a little shitty

Alright I’m going to go for a bit

I’ll be back in 5

@ETBrooD You make the Kraut argument, then.

That Trump should have signed TPP.