Message from @ManAnimal

Discord ID: 642074919735263233


2019-11-07 18:52:35 UTC  

The only reason I can think of why severability might be excluded from a home improvement contract is cuz of liability. If part of the project fails, it could damage the structural integrity of the whole. Again, so far as I know, there's nothing stopping a severability clause, but if there is, that could be the reason.

2019-11-07 18:53:14 UTC  

yt TOS is trying to play both sides; tort AND contract

2019-11-07 18:53:14 UTC  

Pretty much the entirety of law boils down to liability and who is responsible for what

2019-11-07 18:53:17 UTC  

Lets be honest though, most companies are only operating psuedo-legally. Everyone has the "official manual" and "how we actually do things manual" so to say

2019-11-07 18:53:25 UTC  

Contract > tort

2019-11-07 18:53:43 UTC  

true, but the same document cannot cover both

2019-11-07 18:54:04 UTC  

further, without a pen and ink signature..

2019-11-07 18:54:08 UTC  

that tos isn't shit

2019-11-07 18:54:24 UTC  

False

2019-11-07 18:54:34 UTC  

Is there not precedent for clicks being a signatory substitute?

2019-11-07 18:54:36 UTC  

electronic signatures are only valid for limited types of agreements

2019-11-07 18:55:11 UTC  

We learned about that when I studied law. A wet ink signature is merely EVIDENCE of consent, not consent itself. This is why electronic signatures usually have a clause to the effect of "by clicking here, you effectively consent."

2019-11-07 18:55:26 UTC  

Thought there was, but then the whole thing is legally grey. I know EULA is officially no longer legally binding and TOS are very similar in nature.

2019-11-07 18:55:36 UTC  

Outward actions give rise to inward thoughts, or something along those lines.

2019-11-07 18:56:01 UTC  

you are agreeing with me

2019-11-07 18:56:03 UTC  

Electronic signatures are valid

2019-11-07 18:56:11 UTC  

'evidence of consent' is correct

2019-11-07 18:56:18 UTC  

but that isn't BINDING

2019-11-07 18:56:28 UTC  

Click here to agree to this contract that gives us your mind, body, and soul : 🔲

2019-11-07 18:56:30 UTC  

it just creates the APPEARENCE of consent

2019-11-07 18:56:41 UTC  

The only time it wouldn't be binding is in the case of duress or fraud in the inducement or unconscionability or something like that

2019-11-07 18:57:06 UTC  

which basically describes ANY tos

2019-11-07 18:57:36 UTC  

there is the other caveat too; both parties must be provided a COPY of the contract for reference

2019-11-07 18:57:40 UTC  

an immutable copy

2019-11-07 18:57:46 UTC  

The court considers a signature (electronic or otherwise) to be "good enough" evidence of consent for the aforementioned reason. If you didn't really wanna do it, why'd you sign where it says "you agree"?

2019-11-07 18:57:53 UTC  

last time i checked, electronic contracts are not immutable

2019-11-07 18:58:21 UTC  

that is just the current precedence though

2019-11-07 18:58:30 UTC  

german officer capturing a polish jew to personally deliver them to a concentration camp

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633966934622208031/642075417708331008/20191107135509_1.jpg

2019-11-07 18:58:34 UTC  

because relatively few such cases have been heard

2019-11-07 18:58:35 UTC  

@Marushia Dark because there's no way im reading all that garbage im not likely to fully grasp without taking a lot of time for anyway

2019-11-07 18:58:46 UTC  

> which basically describes ANY tos

That's a separate matter and that's more of a grey area. You could potentially argue that point that no reasonable person ACTUALLY reads the ToS, but by the same token, you ought to know with whom you deal and you still have a duty to read it. So, you're gambling with that argument.

2019-11-07 18:59:12 UTC  

more to the point, you could argue that clause wasn't PRESENT on the orignal version

2019-11-07 18:59:23 UTC  

I at least skim through ToS and just about anything I sign

2019-11-07 18:59:27 UTC  

and because your weren't provided a copy

2019-11-07 18:59:35 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633966934622208031/642075690036101128/unknown.png

2019-11-07 18:59:35 UTC  

and they control the only MASTER copy

2019-11-07 18:59:47 UTC  

they can change it when and to what they wish at will

2019-11-07 19:00:03 UTC  

"To be able to know is the same as to know. This maxim is applied to the duty of every one to know the law." ~ Legal Maxim

2019-11-07 19:00:08 UTC  

without notifying the other party