Ultimately I won't be able to make a wholy satisfying case, I can't just convince anyone on some intellectual ground.

But as far as I can tell, as long as your working with fundamental flaws in humans, or rather relatable mistakes, you'll be stuck making half-way solutions that ultimately won't work under any system if your only focused on economics and politics.

So for starters, I have to question why there should be a focus on a fraction of everything.

So you think human nature is the cause of societies problems?

I know that as long as there is a chance to make mistakes, to have frailties, you can't have a system that will work perfectly.
Only a theortically perfect intelligence could achieve that. (And since it is likely to bring up a lot of stuff that would only encourage a flame war. Let's just leave the perfect person thing alone.)

I just mean that I just don't feel that government can solve all our problems,and particularly if it's a character problem, only we can change ourselves.

Yeah, but I mean society is implemented from the top down

I would rather work the other way.

That way doesn't seem to be working.

you implement changes via politics that affect people's goals and environments

I don't see government changing the character of people, do you?

Interestingly, that was the fundamental principle of Maoism.

that the government would change the people.

and likewise, the people would change the government, in a never-ending series of contradictions.

*it failed miserably.*

Communism always fails

it's a bullshit system

Of course.

Let me ask you, what do you think is wrong with people

You can't blanket it. It tends to be case by case.

But.....you could start with a fear of not having enough control, not having enough. That's common.

Can't really make egalitarianism work until they believe in it.

egalitarianism isn't based in reality though

people have differences

And neither is any other political system I've ever seen. I see no difference.

Always a bunch of comprises at the end of the day. And since I want real change and not to just wish for it....

Well, I think the main problem with our society (Western) is that we've lost our collective identity. We are driven by consumerism and individualism.

It achieves nothing

Not on the whole. But I think I see the same problem. A lot of people are less understanding, more prone to being offended, and that's just to start.

The economy is structured in a way that purposely creates debt, it's like a form of slavery

While you can argue that.

People are being divided into camps by media and pop culture

On the flip side a lot of people still want to maintain high appearances, and don't live within thier means.

That debt was thier own mistake. If only they didn't have thier confidence come from such materialism and learned to be happy with what they had in the moment, especially if they could say they owned what they had?

there are too many problems for anyone to just simplify it with a single answer

This is correct.

Which makes the political-economic obession make even less sense to me.

Not really man, want to go to school? Take a loan. Transportation? Take a loan. Buy a house? Take a loan.

It's structured this way, you understand?

Take *responsible* loans.

you can always go deeper into those problems.