it's the economics of communism i have a problem with

my question is how do we know if a system is good unless we have a functional example in history?

that is my big question for the anarchist college kids that are my friends, they just go to the most super liberal college

It also wasn't simply a result of human error on the part of the Maoists. Refusal to cooperate, lying about grain supplies, hoarding of grain and weather disturbances were also to blame.

I never read any mao how does he differ from his soviet counterparts?

Well, capitalism is highly functional.. just not in the way you might imagine it to be. Environmental destruction, capital accumulation into the hands of a minority of the world's population, frequent destabilization of governments and displacement of millions of people, endless wars...

i would argue that while capitalism has its flaws, it works better than communism

i do acknowledge its flaws

however i also acknowledge the progress we've made in technology

without capitalism, we would not have these computers to type on

or discord

I am far from educated on the subject but I feel the main thing that keeps people from leftist ideas is very wrong ideas about them that seem to be common

@quiscalus Mao was very pro-Stalin and anti-revisionist. He was often at odds with Khrushchev who took Stalin's positions after his death.

you can't deny this?

Mao was a brilliant tactician and a wonderful Marxist theoretician.

His military tactics are still studied to this day in places like West Point and elsewhere.

yeah his civil war from 1911 to 49 was interesting, poor chinese suffering 3 wars at once at some points in time then

a lot of my coworkers are very reactionary against words like communism and socialism

@Brickiest Brick Capitalism is not some kind of anthropomorphic entity that is responsible for computers and other technologies. These things were created by laborers, many of whom were and are exploited and subjected to the most degrading of working conditions thanks to the profit motive.

I work with a lot of people from SE Asia, lots of cambodians one of them survived pol pot

I think it is hard to know what products would be made with or without capitalism?

but lemon, if it were not for the greed and motivation to make those ideas, they would not have happened. do you believe, under a communist system instead of a capitalist one, we would have all this technology around us today?

Pol Pot was not a Marxist. He was a psychopathic, dictatorial murderer though with possible connections to Western intelligence.

i know you have an issue with the morals of capitalism, but you can't deny it works

do you think there might be room for markets for certain luxury items in an ideal society?

@Brickiest Brick I know we would, in fact, I believe we would be better off. Innovation is not something unique to capitalism, on the contrary, the historical record provides evidence for the fact that innovation is stifled more often than not because of an aversion to risk, which may or may not turn a profit.

The USSR was highly advanced technologically.

like I can't see what a command economy would be like beyond what has happened in history but shouldn't there be an outlet for entertainment, intoxicants, etc that should be handled by the markets?

can you cite some evidence to back up that claim? not saying i don't believe it, just wondering if there are any actual examples

https://www.socialistalternative.org/2014/11/08/capitalism-stifles-science/

https://www.marxist.com/capitalism-versus-science.htm

@quiscalus It doesn't sound like Marxism is for you. You should look into guys like Proudhon, Carson and Left-Rothbardians. The Alliance for the Libertarian Left might be a good place to find what you're looking for in terms of theory and activism.

im gonna have to ask you a question here

regarding the second paragraph

"All throughout the world people needing medical attention for diseases, curable or otherwise, are often neglected on the basis that it is unprofitable to treat them."

I am not sure if a command economy is the best system but how would I know beyond historical examples?

i haven't really heard of any instances at least in recent history of this actually occurring

if you have markets but still have the workers own the means of production could you have a mixed economy that gave people their basic needs but allowed for competition between worker owned businesses making different products like movies, music, booze, tobacco, etc?

I still have a lot more to read before I develop any real concrete beliefs on what I think is best for society, I am still a babbie leftist despite being 30

Patients in the US are being cut off by insurance companies and denied treatment beyond the scope of emergency situations. And even in emergency situations, they accrue debt. In places like the UK, the NHS has been rationing treatment and cutting back on treatment options in an attempt to save money.