@olev That simply isn't the case. Socialism was achieved in the USSR.

History has proven that every isolated revolution became a bureaucracy and every single one reverted back to capitalism, or is currently

As well as Maoist China.

Socialism was not achieved in the USSR or China, they had commodity production, therefore the law of value

@olev No, your Trotskyite talking points do not impress me. Your historiography is severely lacking in substance.

Marx said that socialism is more productive than advanced capitalism

Yet the USSR was struggling to compete

as much there were serious advances in those countries we would have to have an alternative control society that was roughly equal that existed under capitalism to see if the progress was from the rise of socialism alone

Lmao you're pulling shit out of your ass now

Marx said a number of things that didn't pan out. He wasn't some kind of infallible deity, and to treat him as such is very anti-Marxist.

So even ignoring the lack of worker control in the USSR and China

They had the law of value, they did not achieve socialism

damn I had a lovely time talking with you dudes and would love to do so in the future I just got to hit the sack I am going to volunteer and the county food bank

I really don't care if you believe the USSR was State Capitalist or "Bureaucratic Collectivist". I've heard it all, Trot. Believe me. You really should learn more about Soviet history.

you guys are awesome, interesting, and really communicate well to a someone that is lacking a lot of info on the subject

As well as the history of Maoist China.

Literally "read a book" argument

*at

As expected with fucktard tankies, they need to talk in a pretentious and condescending tone

Trotskyism has literally contributed nothing to the international communist movement. There hasn't been a single insurrection or revolutionary uprising inspired by his ideas. Not one.

@quiscalus Thanks man, appreciate the convo. I'll talk to you later. Take care.

Rate my edits pl0x

@olev I really don't care if you state your opinions, or if you join an organization that splinters into a million other organizations, but when you start making unsubstantiated claims and pawn them off as factual information just because Alan Woods or Schachtman said so, that's when I take issue.

You mean that's when you sperg out and regurgitate bullshit

It's bullshit because you suffer from cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. You can't stand to entertain the idea that Lord Trotsky may have been wrong.

If you don’t know hander frieberg you don’t know politics

You haven't reasoned for how the USSR was socialist despite having the law of value

He wrote the best book on economic theory and political ruling

You literally just said

"go read a book"

Tankies like yourself are incapable of having any meaningful discussion because you're like a fucking cult

Who

Go read what makes us politic by hander frieberg

Best classic novel on ancient aqueducts and political theory

By the way

Vietnamese Trotskyists assisted the august revolution

That is until they were killed like stalinists have historically done to dissenters

Hander frieberg

Author

First of all, economic value is a fundamental aspect of life, and Marx knew this. He expounded on different relationships and differentiated between different kinds of value, as well as the subjective and objective aspects of value.

He was particularly concerned with the objectification of value through trade in the market, where value, once objectified, or reified, essentially exercises dominion over human affairs.