Now that anyone that’s not socialist is fascist

Let the fascists rule!!!

@Deleted User >ancap
Still an idiot regardless.

@black jack So you can't.

No I cant

watch a vid first moron

@Deleted User sup

Jk

@black jack Great, because I do not constrict myself to an artififcal scale online that determines what part of the system I most align to.

😏

Edgy

Hipster

i hope you die of stavation in that commie world

jk

love u no homo

oh shit the 1337 memes of the right

what ever will we do

The right can't meme.

@Deleted User half way through the state and capital, very interesting how even in the latter 19th century and in the early 20th people were distorting meaning of socialism and mangling marx

I am not saying I disagree but how would you verify the idea that the state is a means to keep classes in check especially the proles without capital and keep the capitalists in power or the theory of primitive communism?

Yeah, Lenin actually has a great quote on this.. He talks about how after a revolutionaries death, the state propagandists tend to make him or her look non-revolutionary so as to avoid attracting political radicals. They effectively "sanitize" their image.

also I never really properly dig into Marx and Engels work and never really read enough about the withering away of the state after clash is abolished post revolution and the state is now a dictatorship of the proles

@quiscalus Well, the state is an instrument used for the oppression of one class by another. Under Socialism, you would have what's known as a "Dictatorship of The Proletariat," in which the workers are in direct control of the means of production.

is this happening with a central government controlling the means of production or the workers within a factory now being the ones that run it or a possible mix of both?

Socialism still contains certain elements which were present under capitalism as it is merely a transitional stage of socioeconomic development. The withering away comes about once the productive forces have reached such a level so as to produce abundance and the masses have developed class-conciousness at which point the values of the old world will have been a distant memory and the conditions are ripe for communism.

I think it is funny that he rails against bourgeois revolution where you just trade the state and capitalists with bureaucrats so seek coveted and wealthy positions within the state but that is what happened imo to the USSR

Ideally, it would be predicated on Soviet Democracy, which is a form of Direct Democracy. It's also known as Council Democracy. The councils are elected on several levels: At the residential and business level, delegates are sent to the local councils in plenary assemblies. These, in turn, can delegate members to the next level. The system of delegation continues to the Congress of Soviets at state level. The electoral processes thus take place from the bottom upwards. The levels are usually tied to administrative levels.

I haven't read enough but I feel the conditions for communism are hard to meet but I understand people leveling the accusation that a lot of leftist politics now and "socialist" groups are just reformists advocating for reforming the state but still having the division of power in regards to production still having owners separate from workers

There would be no division of power in that respect.

And the leftists who tend to talk bad about major socialist organizations that are actually doing great work in their communities tend to be the reformist social democrats.

Marxist-Leninists are revolutionary socialists, not reformists.

yeah without having the workers owning the means of production you can never have the destruction of class in society, people manipulate the objective of socialism into reformism moving the goal posts

Yeah, unfortunately there are quite a few "gradualists" out there, but they aren't usually boots-on-the-ground in the community doing shit. At least not in my experience.

I am shocked at how modern society totally revises the goals of socialism to make it non dangerous social democracy, just vote for your leftist party and expand the welfare state without changing the material conditions that lead to class division

You know the left can’t meme

That is the original

Leftists are the biggest normies

I could be off base and my thought be a bit conspiratorial in nature but do you think there was an organized campaign to misinform people about the nature and goal of socialism both smearing it as being against freedom and dominant cultural values while removing its teeth and making it about expanding welfare within the current state?

Yeah, this is why it is necessary to build dual-power institutions.