Message from @Deleted User

Discord ID: 394352766975344649


2017-12-24 04:52:39 UTC  

And Stalin's Socialism was pretty effective.

2017-12-24 04:52:50 UTC  

>stalins socialism

2017-12-24 04:52:58 UTC  

You mean commodity production and law of value socialism?

2017-12-24 04:52:59 UTC  

right

2017-12-24 04:53:26 UTC  

Depends on your definition.

2017-12-24 04:53:53 UTC  

It is an important historical precedent though.

2017-12-24 04:54:04 UTC  

North korea had to totally rework it to the point where it is no longer identifyable as socialism or communism, all of the south asian countries that attempted it went back to capitalism, cuba is capitalist again, and the USSR spectacularly collapsed after every single one of their european and asian occupied countries declared independance in the span of a few years.

2017-12-24 04:54:42 UTC  

The USSR had market reforms in the late 1980s, it wasn't an instant transition

2017-12-24 04:54:52 UTC  

That's actually not unexpected in Marxist theory. Lenin said Socialism was a tendency, not an instant global transformation.

2017-12-24 04:55:13 UTC  

And capitalism reacts with more and more monopolisation.

2017-12-24 04:55:19 UTC  

And state-capitalism.

2017-12-24 04:55:22 UTC  

@Deleted User *Trotsky becomes enraged as he hears this*

2017-12-24 04:55:50 UTC  

I am talking from the Soviet perspective. Trotsky is a footnote of history.

2017-12-24 04:56:03 UTC  

Trotsky never advocated for an instant global revolution

2017-12-24 04:56:12 UTC  

Footnote? He was set to become leader after lenin until stalin came in and fucked his shit up.

2017-12-24 04:56:40 UTC  

Just that the revolution cannot continue within a single nation

2017-12-24 04:56:42 UTC  

If Trotsky was right, another one like him will return.

2017-12-24 04:56:52 UTC  

No, he was not set to become leader

2017-12-24 04:56:54 UTC  

Neither was stalin

2017-12-24 04:56:58 UTC  

That's not how it worked

2017-12-24 04:57:06 UTC  

@gay#2771 Except he kind of did, he publically stated many times that he wanted the revolution to spread globally as fast as possible and did so by funding socialist uprisings in places like germany.

2017-12-24 04:57:06 UTC  

They weren't heirs to a throne

2017-12-24 04:57:21 UTC  

@Deleted User We will see about that.

2017-12-24 04:57:28 UTC  

Indeed.

2017-12-24 04:57:32 UTC  

Permanent revolution isn't belief in an instant global revolution

2017-12-24 04:58:03 UTC  

Nobody realistically believes that will happen

2017-12-24 04:58:13 UTC  

Maybe posadists, after the massive nuclear holocaust of course

2017-12-24 04:58:18 UTC  

@gay#2771 No, he very much believed that the revoultion would be global.

2017-12-24 04:59:04 UTC  

Why would he advocate for such internationalism if he DIDN'T want a global revolution?

2017-12-24 04:59:30 UTC  

The debate moved on over time, at first permanent revolution was in contrast to the menshevik two-stage theory

2017-12-24 05:00:52 UTC  

....And?

2017-12-24 05:01:25 UTC  

Trotsky theorized that the bourgeois of semi-feudal countries such as russia were unable to carry out the tasks of the bourgeois-democratic revolution, therefore the proletariat and peasantry would lead an alliance and carry out the tasks but carry it further as a socialist revolution, which was proven correct in 1917

2017-12-24 05:03:13 UTC  

So the debate moved on to Trotsky also theorizing that an isolated revolution would be unable to survive against the capitalist world, especially when it's backwards, so revolution must take place in other countries quickly aswell

2017-12-24 05:03:28 UTC  
2017-12-24 05:03:45 UTC  

Which means that he DID believen global revolution after all, as fast as possible.

2017-12-24 05:04:00 UTC  

It's one thing to say revolution must be international, but another to make it happen so.

2017-12-24 05:04:21 UTC  

hyeyo cucks]

2017-12-24 05:04:21 UTC  

@Deleted User The thing is that..... it won't, and frankly, never will.

2017-12-24 05:04:24 UTC  

Which is why it hasn't been touched since.

2017-12-24 05:04:35 UTC  

@乙Ƴя𐌆Ξ𝕊_𐌅𐍈𐍂_𐌊Ξ𐌊#0479 Hey alt-rightist.

2017-12-24 05:05:42 UTC  

@Deleted User I have to wonder how the USSR would have turned out if trotsky didn't get banished from the USSR and became leader.