You probably have little understanding of marxism

@Deleted User Well, in Marxist Leninist theory, Socialism comes first, not Communism.

I don't think either of you know what you're talking about

And Stalin's Socialism was pretty effective.

>stalins socialism

You mean commodity production and law of value socialism?

right

Depends on your definition.

It is an important historical precedent though.

North korea had to totally rework it to the point where it is no longer identifyable as socialism or communism, all of the south asian countries that attempted it went back to capitalism, cuba is capitalist again, and the USSR spectacularly collapsed after every single one of their european and asian occupied countries declared independance in the span of a few years.

The USSR had market reforms in the late 1980s, it wasn't an instant transition

That's actually not unexpected in Marxist theory. Lenin said Socialism was a tendency, not an instant global transformation.

And capitalism reacts with more and more monopolisation.

And state-capitalism.

@Deleted User *Trotsky becomes enraged as he hears this*

I am talking from the Soviet perspective. Trotsky is a footnote of history.

Trotsky never advocated for an instant global revolution

Footnote? He was set to become leader after lenin until stalin came in and fucked his shit up.

Just that the revolution cannot continue within a single nation

If Trotsky was right, another one like him will return.

No, he was not set to become leader

Neither was stalin

That's not how it worked

@gay#2771 Except he kind of did, he publically stated many times that he wanted the revolution to spread globally as fast as possible and did so by funding socialist uprisings in places like germany.

They weren't heirs to a throne

@Deleted User We will see about that.

Indeed.

Permanent revolution isn't belief in an instant global revolution

Nobody realistically believes that will happen

Maybe posadists, after the massive nuclear holocaust of course

@gay#2771 No, he very much believed that the revoultion would be global.

Why would he advocate for such internationalism if he DIDN'T want a global revolution?

The debate moved on over time, at first permanent revolution was in contrast to the menshevik two-stage theory

....And?

Trotsky theorized that the bourgeois of semi-feudal countries such as russia were unable to carry out the tasks of the bourgeois-democratic revolution, therefore the proletariat and peasantry would lead an alliance and carry out the tasks but carry it further as a socialist revolution, which was proven correct in 1917

So the debate moved on to Trotsky also theorizing that an isolated revolution would be unable to survive against the capitalist world, especially when it's backwards, so revolution must take place in other countries quickly aswell

https://discord.gg/ng4CV4

Which means that he DID believen global revolution after all, as fast as possible.

It's one thing to say revolution must be international, but another to make it happen so.

hyeyo cucks]

@Deleted User The thing is that..... it won't, and frankly, never will.