But then that collective is itself influenced by individuals.

creating conformism and destroying your "do what you fucking want" thing

The collective is not a separate thing from individuals.

as you are now submitting to a collective and follow that cause

Conformity to what? The goal of making other goals easier to obtain?

lol thats vague

theer are more present needs at first

and mostly

so no

conformity to the sustaining of the collective comes first

Why not the sustaining of individuals who make up the collective instead?

Why not some individuals over others?

And when whe look at sovjet russia confirmity was forced

>muh soviets

jep the sovjets

you know that historical thing

Again, they had to fight off counterrevolutionary forces who were hellbent on destroying the revolution.

That does not mean that we are doomed to having to use this kind of suppression.

Dissent from a hegemony does not mean that one has to fight that hegemony.

B-butt the collective is the ppl and you work for the collective, but these counter revolutionairies who are also with us so basically are part of the collective need to be oppresed

and so does any one else who doesnt shows up for work

They don't need to be shot, though.

Well, they did got shot in some cases

In times where war is rife, yes, there would need to be penalties, and they don't have to include being shot.

whole factorie floor got laid off if they missed deadlines

this meant that they didnt get any food

theer are other ways to force ppl

jsut during war timesand this was not jh

But again, you are assuming that we are going to be forever stuck with this kind of dispute resolution where one party gets their way while others submit and - crucially - *such a state of affairs continues in the same way*.

This is why I brought up the whole 'state and government' thing.

but you said yourselfthat teh process of "doing what you fucking want" is a evolution that keeps changing

dispete resolution where one party gets its way? you mean like democrazy

Of course it changes, because what counts as 'what one wants' changes.

so you cant even do that if you dont have the party that gets its way

Can't even do what? Resolve disputes?

making your premmise no matter how you interpert doing what one fucking owants incorrect

No, to say that it's historical is not to say that it cannot be achieved.

you cant have that changing evolution in some kind of proccess as you are linmited to the collectives goals and the chosen proces and direction

But the 'collective''s goals are themselves changing, no?

if you want something else you get classed as a anti revolutionary by your standards and you need to be oppressed

If you want something else, then it must be justified.