Message from @Garbage

Discord ID: 598508010402349087


2019-07-10 13:24:32 UTC  

It's because you imagine it as something that must be beyond material conditions.

2019-07-10 13:24:46 UTC  

maybe im anarchist

2019-07-10 13:24:46 UTC  

And then you say 'well, we submit to those material conditions'.

2019-07-10 13:24:59 UTC  

communism is that you know

2019-07-10 13:25:15 UTC  

you have a need of the ppl and you need to work to create matirals for the ppl

2019-07-10 13:25:22 UTC  

this is the whole submission

2019-07-10 13:25:27 UTC  

And not to change the material conditions themselves?

2019-07-10 13:25:42 UTC  

'Needs of the people' change, and so do the demands and goals of the people.

2019-07-10 13:26:10 UTC  

Yeah, needs like food and clothing

2019-07-10 13:26:16 UTC  

transportation infrastructure

2019-07-10 13:26:20 UTC  

basic things

2019-07-10 13:26:30 UTC  

that you like need

2019-07-10 13:26:52 UTC  

But we did not need them to survive before or pursue various goals before, now, did we?

2019-07-10 13:27:44 UTC  

To defend their lives, people did not have to rely on a military and maintain it, did they, when states were not in existence...?

2019-07-10 13:28:21 UTC  

And we will not always need things like trains in future.

2019-07-10 13:28:33 UTC  

What use is a train in space, for example?

2019-07-10 13:30:20 UTC  

Our world changes, but not as we consciously want it to. We live in a world of indirect economic and political relations where we aren't conscious of the commonalities between us and we conceive of ourselves as being forever locked into exclusive modes of life by some outside force which we either haven't managed to control yet or simply don't want to (this attitude is *defeatist*).

2019-07-10 13:32:10 UTC  

This imagined outside force is an idol - an embodiment of a big Other into a certain form. It's a reflection of our social world, given a power which we mistakenly take as a force which is supposed to be forever outside of our consciousness and our reach.

2019-07-10 13:32:28 UTC  

'Nature', God, the pixies.

2019-07-10 13:35:18 UTC  

There is something outside of our consciousness of it (this is a development of *materialism*), but it is not something that cannot be known by us. It relates to our own practice and thoughts.

2019-07-10 13:37:09 UTC  

When anyone tries to understand themselves, they must take into account their own history, including them understanding themselves, and the understanding of them understanding themselves and so on. It's an explosive infinite feedback.

2019-07-10 13:37:39 UTC  

So one can never truly capture oneself in thought at a given moment, but they can always be *a step behind* in a sense.

2019-07-10 13:38:42 UTC  

For example, I can understand that I have tried to understand what I am in the past, but I can't capture this process at the present moment.

2019-07-10 13:39:09 UTC  

**You said that I was talking about DID, but this is actually a reference to Lacan's notion of the split subject, or the barred S.**

2019-07-10 13:40:24 UTC  

DID involves a lack of being able to capture oneself at a level which is far greater than this, but also a sense that one does not understand themselves to such a great degree that it is thought that they are not themselves - there is something or someone else in their body that's controlling them.

2019-07-10 13:41:37 UTC  

It means that we must forever be looking at what we're doing and how we can change ourselves as individuals, as groups and as an entire network of reason-capable beings - i.e. as *humanity*.

2019-07-10 13:41:50 UTC  

okay

2019-07-10 13:41:58 UTC  

What are you sying with that

2019-07-10 13:42:19 UTC  

This is a far reach from what you said earlier .

2019-07-10 13:42:30 UTC  

I'm saying that we are not fundamentally determined by an outside force. Let me explain why this matters.

2019-07-10 13:42:47 UTC  

You were talking about a constant revolution that sounded like a forced dictatorship by authority

2019-07-10 13:42:52 UTC  

**It means that the only responsibility for our conditions lies on our shoulders.**

2019-07-10 13:43:13 UTC  

Yet you spoke of we

2019-07-10 13:43:24 UTC  

not only that you spoke of a outside force

2019-07-10 13:43:35 UTC  

What, 'material conditions'?

2019-07-10 13:43:52 UTC  

no the change

2019-07-10 13:43:52 UTC  

It is not something that any responsibility can be placed onto.

2019-07-10 13:44:04 UTC  

the change of being and thought and ideologies

2019-07-10 13:44:24 UTC  

...which we can condition and change ourselves?

2019-07-10 13:45:01 UTC  

The fact that it's currently unconsciously-mediated to a degree that's greater than our inherent lack of keeping up with ourselves does not mean that it's forever locked out of our consciousness.

2019-07-10 13:45:09 UTC  

...and, of course, our control as human beings!