why do you not pray directly to God?

Because there have been men and women who have laid down their lives for christ and have forsaken mothers, brothers,fathers, and sisters for the sake of the kingdom of god. And god has rewarded them with certain virtues

If we are truly in Christ, didn't his sacrifice open the veil and give us direct access to God? Is God too busy or not powerful enough to hear and respond to our prayers?

there fore when we pray to the saints we pray to those who have shed their blood for god and have been given these virtues BY GOD and so therefore we ask them to ask god to also give us these virtues

Not sure I follow.

Is that a catholic thing?

It seems like a bit of a leap.

Christ Opened the door for use to be saved. Because before christ is death there was absolutely no way we were gonna go to heaven because he hadent crushed the gates of hades yet and so therefore we coudnt go to heaven. Now since hes made a way for use to go and be with him in the kingdom we have to work our way there to heavenyl heights. So by praying to the saints to intercede for us in the heavenly heights we start to complete our salvation by acquring closeness to those who are in heaven with our lord along with our lord.

I'd also like to know where scripture supports that.

wait what?

@Supertonesfan91 Well i have to go for now but i sent you a friend request and maybe we can talk later. Good debate!

I am orthodox by the way

Gonna need some scriptural support for this statement, "Now since hes made a way for use to go and be with him in the kingdom we have to work our way there to heavenyl heights."

but I guess that can wait if you have to go.

No saints has no power,


NO ONE CAN GO THROUGH TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH Jesus!



Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:6

Your making saints as idols

How do you know who is a saint and who is not?

from my understanding the saints are all who are in Christ including those alive today, but I'm just a Protestant, I'm not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

I’ll answer you guys in a bit, give me some time

Well, I made an actual logical argument that I spent time on

@MrFusion From what I read there your argument about the Bible sounds like it was made by a Progressive Christian.

Why, because I actually took time to use real world examples and the Bible?

Also, first sentence states I’m Catholic

but you are using the same argument, literally.

Because I had an argument

Plus, how did you like it

Anything you disagree with or find factually false?

Or do you just disagree on the basis that your religion is different than mine

You assume we need the Pope

Do you believe that?

Because it can be back and forth for me

Christ is the head of the church, we are all representatives of Jesus.

Ok, but Jesus made Peter the Pope

Therefore the head of the earthly Church

No he didn't

How so, I brought it up in my article

and? so?

Anyway, Christ is still the head of religion, the total and complete leader

I quote the Bible in Peter being the Pope

http://www.scifiwright.com/2021/02/last-crusade-the-war-of-utopia-and-paradise/#more-27593

Peter allegedly being the first Pope is how catholics interpret that, the could be referring Peters confession that Jesus is Lord, not necessarily Peter himself, or even all of the apostles, seeing that they were the first generation of Christians