freedom is freedom

"You can't handle my freedoms!"

catalonia would look like the PKK if they just started shooting things up instead of holding a referendum

if your culture doesn't value freedom then I don't know what to tell you

>implying catalonia isn't the PKK

In the past though, most countries had these freedoms to own firearms, especially all western countries.

I think Catalonia wouldn't have allowed Spanish police to take the ballots away if they had guns to defend them.

Having guns doesn't mean it's your first recourse.

But it stops the opposition from using force as the first recourse.

are you unironically arguing against defending yourself from foreign oppressors with force?

@Ruggwain

do you think that just because you use force to secure your freedom that that freedom is somehow illegitimate?

no

I'm saying that guns aren't the ultimate guaranteur of freedom

so whats the argument against an armed catalonia?

and that you can be a free soceity without them

yea, they are.

MUH GUNS

until someone decides to ignore your rights, again

the argument against an armed catalonia is number 1 that the conflict isn't over yet

Kosovo's independence wasn't the product of one day

you didn't answer my question, how do you oppress people with guns?

you don't need to opress people in europe

So, fellas

they will vote for their own oppression

By besieging them

yea, you do it yourselves.

Starve them out

What *is* the actual plan for combating the Islamation of Britain?

i'm talking about controlled occupation, not warfare

how do you capture an armed Catalonia for instance

it is impossible

as MMA fighter and me pointed out

the people's mandate supercede any kind of principle

at least here

and Catalonia has defacto independence, the spanish government has no control over it apart from the state institutions there, the local government has done its very best and more military is switching to their side by the day

which is why you'll be knocking from one tyrant to the next until liberalism finally beats its way into mainland europe.

they will at one point have the time to stage a war like Kosovo

>the people's mandate supercede any kind of principle
so no need for a constitution?

that's not what that means

the constitution prevents the politicians from going rogue