but when people say mail in ballots are less secure what they are getting at is its still .00001% fraud in proven cases. Which generally does not flip an election. So the question is how does one pump up difficult to perform extremely rare fraud to the numbers such that it flips a whole state using a city

@Dedkraken the reason why they are insecure is because of how they are cast and how they are counted. for example, it would be much more difficult to vote in person more than once. its also harder for someone to coerce you into voting in person for a particular candidate. the margins are pretty thin, if you sent 2 mail in votes to 15,000 people (0.15% of the GA population) voting democrat you would have won.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/election-2020/company-that-fell-behind-on-mailing-ballots-draws-national-attention-for-flying-trump-flag

Mass voter fraud? inside job?

so fraud only needs to occur in a small number of key cities in the swing states. it doesnt need to be widespread or even on a mass scale.

https://youtu.be/up1SLwKWSaE

in my opinion the fraud was not coordinated or part of a secret plan

https://eu.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2020/10/14/election-officials-cancel-ballot-printing-contract-after-delays/5977528002/

i suspect there are numerous disconnected parties - the fact that they all took their own route to help biden win is what lead them to being detected. had they got together they could have not duplicated their efforts and made it so obvious

wouldnt it make far more sense more legal people voted not commiting a felony

@Dedkraken im sure the overwhelming majority were cast legally. but as i said we are talking about very small numbers (relative to the number of voters) required to change the overall result.

a very small amount of fraud does not get Trump nearly close to winning the election

how many votes would flip GA or NV?

its somewhere like 20-30k votes

GA is a no go it was triple counted and verified against the paper receipts NV isnt even close you mean arizona?

Nevada 33,596 biden

GA is also reublican who told Trump to move along...

ok so if biden leads by 33,596 - how many votes does trump need to win? 16,799

thats massive in NV

well he needs one more than 33,596

best bet is something like PA, MI, AZ? I mean 30k fraud nationwide would be unheard of

it's a power grab

yes if he is removing votes he needs 33,596+

ok so lets assume that it is pretty unlikely for 30k fraud votes lets say

x5 for each of the swing states

thats the understatement of the millenia 😄

how likely is it that biden got more votes than obama and lost seats in the house and no gains in the senate?

https://www.newsweek.com/pro-trump-group-challenge-364k-voter-registrations-georgia-ahead-runoff-election-1556093

how many times has a president gone into office without a senate majority?

Voter fraud deniers everywhere

He'll have one

dems made gains in the senate and are likely about to win 2 more

Gained one already

They probably will win those two. The GOP I predict getting a big middle finger

but if i am to disbelieve that 30k votes x5 , at the same time i have to believe the unlikely event of him winning more than obama and making little or no gains

there were only 1.5 million votes cast in nevada and only so many of them were mailin votes. 17,000 fraud would be unheard of. there is immense checks in place to maintain accurate elections and after election after election intense scrutiny and checks for fraud occur. It just never happens. That 17k votes is beyond widespread voter fraud for sure

at the same time i have to also believe the unlikely event that biden won less counties than ANY other president

"believing things" is different than proving things. Truthiness won't win court cases because its not based in reality.

Between 2000 and 2018 Oregon cast over 100 million mailin ballots. Do you know how many were proven as fraud votes? (its not 17000)

the same people than run the election are those that are elected through the system