Message from @EoinChadwick

Discord ID: 486210676113539101


2018-09-03 16:23:55 UTC  

I will disagree with everyone based on the Aristotelian argument that a society is ultimately grounded in shared virtue and that virtue is the root of excellence, so that it's essential for the future citizens of a society to be taught moral values, such as being taught loyalty towards one's friends and neighbors.

2018-09-03 16:24:06 UTC  

but if a better worker is one who keeps their head down and works instead of questioning the system, that's not something the school should go for

2018-09-03 16:24:09 UTC  

I mean

2018-09-03 16:24:12 UTC  

whose morals?

2018-09-03 16:24:25 UTC  

morality is too vague of a term

2018-09-03 16:25:13 UTC  

A society requires that people have basic agreement on the ultimate goods and bads, otherwise they cannot create laws which are universally acceptable. So, the society's morals. It is only because some moral rules are unquestionably accepted that many others can be left up in the air.

2018-09-03 16:25:54 UTC  

which society?

2018-09-03 16:26:01 UTC  

and at what point in time?

2018-09-03 16:26:11 UTC  

Are these morals going to be stagnant, or are they going to develop over time?

2018-09-03 16:26:17 UTC  

Morals are relatively fluid and subjective

2018-09-03 16:26:24 UTC  

That is false

2018-09-03 16:26:26 UTC  

Do we teach stealing is always wrong, or only wrong in certain situations?

2018-09-03 16:26:36 UTC  

There's nuance there, after all

2018-09-03 16:27:02 UTC  

I mean, look at the Heinz dilemma

2018-09-03 16:27:09 UTC  

Also, morals heavily do vary

2018-09-03 16:27:11 UTC  

for example

2018-09-03 16:27:14 UTC  

I can't really, y'know

2018-09-03 16:27:17 UTC  

Own a person right now.

2018-09-03 16:27:29 UTC  

@Alice Redacted Aristotelian virtue isn't a list of rules, it's a list of qualities that a person has. In my view you teach children qualities like wisdom and courage - you don't for the most part tell them exactly what to think.

2018-09-03 16:27:31 UTC  

Slavery, as generally agreed upon, is bad

2018-09-03 16:27:38 UTC  

Today

2018-09-03 16:27:41 UTC  

what's wise? What's courageous?

2018-09-03 16:27:45 UTC  

@Alice Redacted I thought that's fluid and relative?

2018-09-03 16:27:52 UTC  

Wisdom to one might be foolish to another

2018-09-03 16:27:52 UTC  

A few hundred years ago its pretty much universally accepted

2018-09-03 16:28:01 UTC  

Courage to one might be idiocy to another

2018-09-03 16:28:37 UTC  

no a specific action might be courageous to one and idiotic to another

2018-09-03 16:28:49 UTC  

that's what I'm saying

2018-09-03 16:28:52 UTC  

the abstract concept of courage is agreed upon to be good

2018-09-03 16:29:01 UTC  

It's too abstract and has no applicable use

2018-09-03 16:29:07 UTC  

the question is how to apply that fact specifically

2018-09-03 16:29:10 UTC  

kind of like "virtue"

2018-09-03 16:29:16 UTC  

Don't confuse not being able to explain how bread is ultimately constituted with an inability to bake bread

2018-09-03 16:29:18 UTC  

Virtue is too vague of a term to have any real meaning

2018-09-03 16:29:35 UTC  

Also, why should we teach said subjects?

2018-09-03 16:29:38 UTC  

You can build virtue without having an atomic understanding of it in the way you suggest

2018-09-03 16:29:47 UTC  

What are you teaching then?

2018-09-03 16:29:57 UTC  

It seems to me as if you're merely just teaching a word

2018-09-03 16:30:01 UTC  

Praising a word

2018-09-03 16:30:07 UTC  

You teach virtue not through words, but by showing people how to muster their emotions to be disciplined

2018-09-03 16:30:31 UTC  

"muster their emotions to be disciplined"?