Message from @EoinChadwick
Discord ID: 486210676113539101
I will disagree with everyone based on the Aristotelian argument that a society is ultimately grounded in shared virtue and that virtue is the root of excellence, so that it's essential for the future citizens of a society to be taught moral values, such as being taught loyalty towards one's friends and neighbors.
but if a better worker is one who keeps their head down and works instead of questioning the system, that's not something the school should go for
I mean
whose morals?
morality is too vague of a term
A society requires that people have basic agreement on the ultimate goods and bads, otherwise they cannot create laws which are universally acceptable. So, the society's morals. It is only because some moral rules are unquestionably accepted that many others can be left up in the air.
which society?
and at what point in time?
Are these morals going to be stagnant, or are they going to develop over time?
Morals are relatively fluid and subjective
That is false
Do we teach stealing is always wrong, or only wrong in certain situations?
There's nuance there, after all
I mean, look at the Heinz dilemma
Also, morals heavily do vary
for example
I can't really, y'know
Own a person right now.
@Alice Redacted Aristotelian virtue isn't a list of rules, it's a list of qualities that a person has. In my view you teach children qualities like wisdom and courage - you don't for the most part tell them exactly what to think.
Slavery, as generally agreed upon, is bad
what's wise? What's courageous?
@Alice Redacted I thought that's fluid and relative?
Wisdom to one might be foolish to another
A few hundred years ago its pretty much universally accepted
Courage to one might be idiocy to another
no a specific action might be courageous to one and idiotic to another
that's what I'm saying
the abstract concept of courage is agreed upon to be good
It's too abstract and has no applicable use
the question is how to apply that fact specifically
kind of like "virtue"
Don't confuse not being able to explain how bread is ultimately constituted with an inability to bake bread
Virtue is too vague of a term to have any real meaning
Also, why should we teach said subjects?
You can build virtue without having an atomic understanding of it in the way you suggest
What are you teaching then?
It seems to me as if you're merely just teaching a word
Praising a word
You teach virtue not through words, but by showing people how to muster their emotions to be disciplined
"muster their emotions to be disciplined"?