Message from @The Big Oof
Discord ID: 488138805300297738
All we can do here is debate first principles themselves
Its like we're trying to speak different languages
Why should I defend a nation which holds different ideological and philosophical principles than me?
You shouldn't.
You don't really have to
**fixed question
But you should defend your country
The state is a means to an end
Both people and governments should hold the right principles and if you do and your government doesn't then you should attempt to fix this
Assuming the invaders have a just reason and are more in line with my ideology...
What are the invaders there for?
"Just reason" is subjective
I mean, it's a case to case basis
For example, let's just go to the nazi germany circa 1945
Supposing I'm...
Invaders are almost there to spread their influence
a lesbian, communist german
Who's somehow managed to make it this far
Should I defend the german homeland, the german people, even though if I did so, I'd likely be persecuted after making my effort
A communist doesn't value ethic blood so no
eh, fine
just a lesbian german
there we go
Again the subject of debate has to be WHAT are the right principles
I wouldn't be killed, mind you
And why
Communists are inherently internationalist, aside from some fringe movements like National Bolshevism
Still, I'm asking in your set of beliefs
Even then
Should I?
Would it be the "right" thing to do?
Even though my nation directly violates all my personal beliefs
Is morality subjective
"Should I defend the german homeland, the german people, even though if I did so, I'd likely be persecuted after making my effort"
This is a bit irrelevant, but to you would actually probably be spared
The answer to that question determines the answer to yours
Hitler spared Jews and also let blacks fight in his army
*some Jews
But it's irrelevant
If morality is objective then your personal beliefs are irrelevant to what is right
The jews he spared were generally only used in administration roles in aiding the holocaust