Message from @Draco

Discord ID: 503319958034448384


2018-10-20 21:25:43 UTC  

It won't magically disappear.

2018-10-20 21:26:04 UTC  

Yes, but this is a risk with tariffs

2018-10-20 21:26:50 UTC  

One which does not exist within an unobstructed market

2018-10-20 21:27:51 UTC  

The point is that does not change nation's economy. Let us say that Bill Gates earn $100 trillion because of monopoly. Then, he would spend it. The nations economy would suffer from zero effect of Bill Gates acquiring of money by unethical or even illegal means.

2018-10-20 21:28:19 UTC  

I'd encourage taxation on said gains, rather than outright tariffs

2018-10-20 21:28:55 UTC  

Perhaps... stratified tariffs, even

2018-10-20 21:29:00 UTC  

Just not flat tariff rates

2018-10-20 21:29:23 UTC  

Flat tariff rates would harm the poor more than the rich

2018-10-20 21:29:40 UTC  

It's why I oppose VATs

2018-10-20 21:30:00 UTC  

So, basically it is a form of pro-poor argument?

2018-10-20 21:30:14 UTC  

To some degree, yes

2018-10-20 21:30:40 UTC  

In addition to an argument of increased productivity, and thus general living standards

2018-10-20 21:31:22 UTC  

That is a myth perpetuated by free marketers. There is no theoretical argument for that.

2018-10-20 21:31:43 UTC  

Specialization's ability to improved productivity is well known

2018-10-20 21:32:47 UTC  

And that specialisation is achieved because a lot of capital is lost because home companies are destroyed by free markets

2018-10-20 21:32:48 UTC  

Tariffs are only beneficial when used to knock them down, or to buy votes

2018-10-20 21:32:53 UTC  

As humanity settled, we were able to specialize into certain fields rather than requiring everyone to hunt or gather, enabling new enterprises to arise

2018-10-20 21:33:15 UTC  

That is a different type of specialisation. What it has to do with free market?

2018-10-20 21:33:23 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/452955238186614794/503319849968074762/sans.png

2018-10-20 21:33:25 UTC  

It's just one example

2018-10-20 21:33:49 UTC  

Technological specialisation increases productivity.

2018-10-20 21:33:54 UTC  

I mean, autarky is just generally a poor idea

2018-10-20 21:34:09 UTC  

Every state has a maximum amount of production they can hypothetically achieve in each field, limited by resources, labor, capital, and so on

2018-10-20 21:34:23 UTC  

We're not in a post scarcity economy

2018-10-20 21:35:28 UTC  

It is not. What Autarky does is something like social welfare. Everyone survives, so overall quality is lower. Free market destroys weak competitors so quality is higher. But this higher quality also entails destruction of relatively poor business owners, who cannot compete with MNCs.

2018-10-20 21:35:49 UTC  

So, you destroy businesses today and benefit tomorrow

2018-10-20 21:36:35 UTC  

Equal tariffs would also produce a large amount of immediate damage as well

2018-10-20 21:37:20 UTC  

Imports/exports are required to sustain each state and its current quality of life

2018-10-20 21:37:27 UTC  

They won't. If they are imposed on nations which export more to the country putting tariffs. That is why Trump's tariffs are a success.

2018-10-20 21:37:35 UTC  

A success?

2018-10-20 21:37:41 UTC  

It's going to harm farmers in the long run

2018-10-20 21:37:48 UTC  

It already is, actually

2018-10-20 21:38:03 UTC  

Exports are going to decrease

2018-10-20 21:38:06 UTC  

You were talking short term. You said immediate damage

2018-10-20 21:38:17 UTC  

Both short and long term

2018-10-20 21:38:29 UTC  

In short term they are benefiting USA

2018-10-20 21:38:58 UTC  

Even then, you're more or less saying that short term benefits outweigh producing something sustainable in the long term

2018-10-20 21:39:11 UTC  

No. I am saying that they are theoretically equal.

2018-10-20 21:39:24 UTC  

Not particularly...

2018-10-20 21:39:58 UTC  

International trade, particularly without tariffs, shifts out the ultimate amount of potential productivity possible

2018-10-20 21:41:15 UTC  

It'd force some short term shifts in specialization (potentially, domestic industries don't need to pay transportation fees as high and would have shorter delays in shipment, so there are a lot of domestic boons), but in the long run, would result in greater overall productivity