no

There was no national identity to speak of.

Yes, routinely.

Muh nations came around in 1850

no thats not a thing

Jalayirids, Mongols, Gokturks, Oghuzi Turks, Scythians.

Persia has repeatedly been conquered.

look at european empires

they had nationalism for as long as they where around

look at mercantilism

Mercantilism was based on the acquirement of resources.

Has nothing to do with nationalism.

How about we start by you defining what a nation state is because it clearly is not what an actual nation state is if you think Persia and Egypt and China were nation states.

France was not even a nation before the French Revolution. It was numerous languages and *communal* cultures. People did not speak "French" outside of the Ile-de-France.

Same thing in China.

Mandarin, the word itself, refers to the court language of the Qing dynasty. People did not speak Mandarin. There were various local languages. Same as France.

There was no national identity to speak of.

You are simply historically incorrect on this.

The word Mandarin literally comes from the Portuguese word for minister.

Egypt did not really have a collective identity until the Muslim conquests, and thereafter it had a religious identity just like European states did until the erosion of that form of identity by the Westphalian system and the secularization of Europe by liberalism in the 18th and 19th centuries, giving birth to actual ethnolinguistic identities.

Which was fostered by increased communication and standardization of language.

To further my point Egypt was not even ruled by Egyptians during the Mamluk period. The Mamluks were first Turks under the Bahris and then Circassians under the Burjis, who controlled the Ayyubid caliph as a figurehead to maintain order.

Notice something there? The caliph is a religious figure.

Religious identity more than anything was the defining characteristic of national character and therefore the precursor of the nation state, which in most cases only arose in the 19th century.

Think about this

How did mercantilism call for wealth do be kept?

The cosmopolitan nature of countries like Egypt and China and France disallowed an ethnolinguistic identity to form.

By classes

by people

or by a __nation__

I gtg

You mean countries competed for wealth as they have been forever? This is not a convincing argument for the existence of the nation state.

You are retroactively defining the country as a nation where it doesn't exist.

Again, you're just wrong.

Would love to continue this later.

@Da_Fish You physically cannot win an argument against Zexy, she will not allow it wether your stance is correct or incorrect,

Submit to her dominance

<@&452955176354054172> : DDDD

*I’m not the one who asked my boyfriend to get socialists allowed as staff so I could me staff, now am I?*

I'm not either. That was Josh's idea, and he's married. So not my boyfriend.

Nor am I really a socialist.