real socialism = successful socialism lol

Which doesn't exist

that's why it was never real socialism

They're technically correct when they say that it never was

Because socialism never was and never will be

exactly

It's a fantasy

So much like communism its only an intellectual unicorn fantasy

Socialism is always redefined when they realize it doesn't work

Like how Dengists claim socialism is "eliminating poverty"

When they have to justify capitalist policies in China

"destroying all class barriers"

that's a nice definition that can't really be met

there cant be a class if everyone is equally poor

imo class isn't just how much money you have

as far as I know communism drives towards anarchy, which is legitimately a method of exacting equality because if there is no structure and everyone is dirt poor in primitivism and anarchy then well there is no economic class

and true that, there can be many ways to define a class in society, intelectual capacity, practical skills, physicla prowess.

and id argue that those clases do exist, but to a lesser extent than say economic

yeah pure communism is anarchy

but the goal is not to make everyone dirt poor and primitive

Post labor society

Is the end goal of communism

huh

didn't know that

not primitivism then ig

Socialism is the belief that men are inherently good and equal. That it is the social stratification that causes the evils in society. So if men shared the means of production then inequality would be eliminated which would create a good society.

Social democracy tries to do the same, but by redistributing wealth through social programs.

Haven't I already told you repeatedly in extreme detail why this analysis of socialism is completely wrong?

Socialism is not "everyone is equal", this is far from a consensus in socialist theory. Socialism is collective ownership of the MOP. Even the phrase 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their need' strongly implies not everyone is equal.

You're confusing historical materialism that leads to the perceived injustices of capitalism with the theory of socialism itself.

@εïз irma εïз you haven't told me that

We had a very lengthy discussion where I explained why welfare capitalism is not socialism.

It's in the name. Welfare capitalism.

Yes, but you never said that

We never brought up the topic of equality

That's because I'm refuting your egalitarian reductionism of socialism, not that welfare capitalism is socialism.

I've already proven you wrong on one point. Now I'm proving you wrong on another.

Why would I repeat myself again?

@εïз irma εïз well perhaps I am confusing historic materialism with socialism, but that's no fault of my own as that is the philosophical roots of socialism

So you're confusing the problem with the solution.

Seems like a pretty big faux pas, and very much your fault.

"Redistribution of stuff" is not the end goal or Marxian socialism.