Message from @Enigmatic★Chromatic

Discord ID: 508447054146568202


2018-11-04 00:38:12 UTC  

So really it's the bourgeoisie who benefit from racism

2018-11-04 00:39:35 UTC  

Your analysis critiques the bourgeosie but fails to explain why they should make way for Proletariat. The only way is if the Proletariat goes against the bourgeosie. But then they would be the new bourgeosie.
So, where does this cycle end?

2018-11-04 00:40:11 UTC  

This kind of gets into historical Materialism

2018-11-04 00:40:37 UTC  

We have not seen a revolutionary class establish a state like the former, it always takes a form which benefits their class

2018-11-04 00:40:59 UTC  

The bourgeoisie formed from the merchant class and when it overthrew the Feudal Lords did not themselves become Feudal Lords

2018-11-04 00:41:17 UTC  

And I think we could both agree Capitalism is better than Feudalism

2018-11-04 00:41:51 UTC  

If the proletariat seize power they will form a state and political economy that is a reflection of their class and class interests

2018-11-04 00:42:22 UTC  

Nothing but socialism can arise from this

2018-11-04 00:43:08 UTC  

Btw I have to drive so brb

2018-11-04 00:43:25 UTC  

But there will always be a class that has power, right?
Ok

2018-11-04 01:01:55 UTC  

Well the majority of human existence has been in tribal societies where there were no class distinctions

2018-11-04 01:06:31 UTC  

there were de facto autocrats

2018-11-04 01:06:33 UTC  

chieftains

2018-11-04 01:06:34 UTC  

elders

2018-11-04 01:06:41 UTC  

theocrats

2018-11-04 01:06:42 UTC  

Those are not classes

2018-11-04 01:06:48 UTC  

Leaders will always exist

2018-11-04 01:06:48 UTC  

not economic classes no

2018-11-04 01:06:53 UTC  

Exactly

2018-11-04 01:06:55 UTC  

but involuntary control

2018-11-04 01:07:04 UTC  

My issue is not with hierarchies in and of themselves

2018-11-04 01:07:25 UTC  

Socialism is the abolition of class distinctions, not the abolition of the concept of leaders

2018-11-04 01:07:33 UTC  

yes i know

2018-11-04 01:07:36 UTC  

i am a socialist

2018-11-04 01:07:37 UTC  

In fact I think Engles puts it best

2018-11-04 01:07:57 UTC  

Are you a Marxist socialist? Or a sort of NazBol thing

2018-11-04 01:08:38 UTC  

i consider myself a marxist

2018-11-04 01:08:52 UTC  

the epistemological break is an important component to me

2018-11-04 01:09:12 UTC  

i find myself more intrigued with marx's scientific theories than his worldly philosophy

2018-11-04 01:10:23 UTC  

Well they're interconnected

2018-11-04 01:12:18 UTC  

I mean insofar as i don't need to rely on anything dialectical or materialistic to arrive at empirical worker exploitation and the effectiveness of worker self-management and proletarian freedom

2018-11-04 01:12:28 UTC  

or the validity of the LTV

2018-11-04 01:12:35 UTC  

or determining physical surplus

2018-11-04 01:12:37 UTC  

or surplus value

2018-11-04 01:13:27 UTC  

or that industries with a high labor to capital ratio are more profitable as shown by farjoun and machover in solidarity with the previously mentioned point of worker exploitation

2018-11-04 01:14:24 UTC  

Well, fair enough I suppose

2018-11-04 01:15:16 UTC  

As long as you can conclude with communism, that's to me what is most important

2018-11-04 01:24:17 UTC  

it's a possibility

2018-11-04 01:24:43 UTC  

as a theocrat i think an apostolic vanguard is necessary

2018-11-04 01:25:24 UTC  

Why aren't you a distributist if you're religious?

2018-11-04 01:26:53 UTC  

distributism is a system of creating a petty bourgeois