Message from @Enigmatic★Chromatic
Discord ID: 509130304305233926
Yeah, I know
But they did intend to lower the population
@Enigmatic★Chromatic I never said that under Communism everyone would be equally rich. I said that Marx's critique was that some classes of people have undue power over other classes of people. This power comes from the fact that one class is richer than the other and one of the reasons for that is ownership of capital/means of production.
We know that because (Marx and) Engels said that in most cases, husbands are the bourgeoisie and wives are proletariat, though they also said that most men are Proletariat. The only logical way that both can be true is if the class analysis is not restricted to just means of production.
_"It's really disengenuous to tell a Marxist what Marx thought"_
Just because you are a Marxist, does not mean that you know more than others about Marx. I quoted their exact statements to back my assertion.
under communism everyone would be equally poor*
That is more probable, except the bourgeoisie of the Communist Party
Okay we are just saying anything now aren't we?
in the USSR the bourgeoisie wasn't removed
all the property was centralized in the hands of the communist party
so the communist party become the bourgeoisie
That's not how that works or worked
Yep. It is the fallacy of assuming that hierarchy goes away if you protest against it. Natural Law > Communism
There was a few different kinds of property in the USSR, State Owned, Collective, Co-ops and I think a few instances of normal private property existed
None of that was allowed to not be seized because government had almost unlimited power of seizure.
Honestly it would have done better if it did seize those
So, I guess potatoes, potatoes
the true slav knows atleast 1848 ways to use a potato
Potatoes can be excellently transported using helicopters
these hot takes
But the bourgeoisie is a specific relationship within capitalism, this did not exist in the USSR. The USSR had not reached communism yes, but "bourgeoisie" doesn't mean "hierarchy" and it doesn't mean *any* ruling class
What does bourgeoisie mean? Define it please?
@Enigmatic★Chromatic dont try this discussion with him i already shit on him about it he just ignores what anything marxist means
Yes. I don't drink Marxist Kool Aid
The bourgeoisie is the specifically the a person whom extracts surplus value from the proletariat. The one who owns the capital that forces proletariats to see their ability to labour to for a wage
This is a specific relationship
Under Feudalism for example the relationship was different. Serfs worked the landlord's land for several days of the week and pay a rent in the form of the goods they harvested instead of an extraction of surplus value
So, is a husband a bourgeoisie?
Different material relations
No they're not
So, why Engels said that?
He didn't
I quoted him.
In what message exactly?
You can see that above. Just scroll up
You have two quotes from Marx, out of context, and that's all
<OUT OF CONTEXT> Ok
`In the great majority of cases today, at least in the possessing classes, the husband is obliged to earn a living and support his family, and that in itself gives him a position of supremacy, without any need for special legal titles and privileges. Within the family he is the bourgeois and the wife represents the proletariat. In the industrial world, the specific character of the economic oppression burdening the proletariat is visible in all its sharpness only when all special legal privileges of the capitalist class have been abolished and complete legal equality of both classes established. The democratic republic does not do away with the opposition of the two classes; on the contrary, it provides the clear field on which the fight can be fought out.`
he quoted a piece of this
which engels wrote to relativize the situation of supremacy of bourgeois over proletariat
that forms the basic economic unit
in an attempt to draw a conclusion of liberation would include the female sex equally entering the public industry