I don't, my only interest in a secular right is in shifting a large block of US voters

I now think there is no workable basis, ultimately

but temporarily?

I think you could do it, I would consider it evil however

I wish there was a workable framework, it would make things much easier

Eh. Everyone is religious. Some people just have a certain misinterpretation of what religion is and call themselves atheists and oppose themselves to random doctrine

A secular rightism that appeals to them on those terms but causes them to follow the action of a fundamentally religious ideology

could eventually correct their adolescent reaction to "religion" haha

idk

just a thought experiment

yeah, I understand dont worry about it

happy to engage

I've had the same thought

about reaction -> religion

there's a couple of really big problems with that though

number 1 is just being able to accept it

after that there is the issue that if someone is misled into thinking that ultimately there can be a secular "reaction", they will be further from religion than if they had simply experienced the hypocritical degeneration of PC morality

and more: it leads to an inhuman style of thinking

which I feel ultimately deadens one to reception of such stuff

in a way honest leftism does not

2 is a good point

for the last point, Nietzsche is the best example

ultimately a tragic figure

the concern I have with that perspective is first that these slides happen on such a bigger-than-human timeframe it's hard for some people to connect the dots. They don't necessarily even see that they have problems, much less that their neurotic leftist moralising is causing those problems

and second that the advance of technology is a crutch that props up bad government

and makes it hard to point out the flaws because people revert to "well look at how far we've advanced"

you're quite right

however regarding the timeframe stuff you said, I used to have a perspective like yours and still sometimes reflexively slip into that sort of thinking

its ultimately a secular and pragmatic mode of thinking, whereas I've been converted to a perspective that values individual souls first

and in such a picture, things could work out just fine

while seeming to be disastrous

from a more utilitarian or pragmatic pov

what you actually said is perfectly valid though

Hmm I don't think we really differ on perspective that much. Most of the time I spend thinking about political stuff on the national / world scale and talking about us voting blocs is just out of genuine hobbyist interest. My priority is always the good people around me and my own inner growth and life.

I don't sweat the other stuff, I'm just an interested observer

I see, yeah I think you're right

have you read Seraphim Rose's essay on "Nihilism" @UOC

no, link me

it addresses all of these concerns in a broad fashion

http://web.archive.org/web/20100111142452/http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/nihilism.html

my little brother is texting me some good shit right now. I was worried he had the soul of a leftist but I trusted him and he's coming through