Message from @fallot
Discord ID: 343097210671726604
why do you, or anyone else, feel a draw to secular right etc. at all?
No, and I note in the post that you would need to develop that framework a lot a lot. I was just interested in whether there was a workable basis
why is it good that things works out, rather than they be changed
even at a cost
for some moral good
I don't, my only interest in a secular right is in shifting a large block of US voters
I now think there is no workable basis, ultimately
but temporarily?
I think you could do it, I would consider it evil however
I wish there was a workable framework, it would make things much easier
Eh. Everyone is religious. Some people just have a certain misinterpretation of what religion is and call themselves atheists and oppose themselves to random doctrine
A secular rightism that appeals to them on those terms but causes them to follow the action of a fundamentally religious ideology
could eventually correct their adolescent reaction to "religion" haha
idk
just a thought experiment
yeah, I understand dont worry about it
happy to engage
I've had the same thought
about reaction -> religion
there's a couple of really big problems with that though
after that there is the issue that if someone is misled into thinking that ultimately there can be a secular "reaction", they will be further from religion than if they had simply experienced the hypocritical degeneration of PC morality
and more: it leads to an inhuman style of thinking
which I feel ultimately deadens one to reception of such stuff
in a way honest leftism does not
2 is a good point
for the last point, Nietzsche is the best example
ultimately a tragic figure
the concern I have with that perspective is first that these slides happen on such a bigger-than-human timeframe it's hard for some people to connect the dots. They don't necessarily even see that they have problems, much less that their neurotic leftist moralising is causing those problems
and second that the advance of technology is a crutch that props up bad government
and makes it hard to point out the flaws because people revert to "well look at how far we've advanced"
you're quite right
however regarding the timeframe stuff you said, I used to have a perspective like yours and still sometimes reflexively slip into that sort of thinking
its ultimately a secular and pragmatic mode of thinking, whereas I've been converted to a perspective that values individual souls first
and in such a picture, things could work out just fine
while seeming to be disastrous
from a more utilitarian or pragmatic pov
what you actually said is perfectly valid though
Hmm I don't think we really differ on perspective that much. Most of the time I spend thinking about political stuff on the national / world scale and talking about us voting blocs is just out of genuine hobbyist interest. My priority is always the good people around me and my own inner growth and life.
I don't sweat the other stuff, I'm just an interested observer
I see, yeah I think you're right