Message from @fallot
Discord ID: 352196321312112641
how could you tell via reductionism?
yeah we do but not much changes if you assume they see the spectrum differently to me
not being unable to see red
so assuming you wouldn't be able to tell by examining their eyes and they see a different red because of something neurological
how could you tell?
yeah, assuming that's all the same
imagine a clone of you in every physical way
who sees your "red" as your "blue" and vice versa
and understands everything in those terms
and in the situation where that isn't actually a phenomenon that could exist
hmm?
I didn't understand your last sentence
hang on i need to organise my thoughts, this is new territory for me
what were you saying about the clone
in my current understanding I would think that there would not be a situation where there was a physically identical clone to me that saw red and blue differently to me, after all we're physically identical
how can you say so
how would you be able to tell
what I was saying about the clone is imagine one, identical to you in every physical way, who in their subjective experience sees your "red and "blue" switched
nothing would change about the way they apparently perceive the world
after all, they still see both those wavelengths of light
while your red is his blue, you wont be able to tell the difference if you sit down and talk to him about it
or compare looking at pictures etc.
I worked my arms out yesterday and they don't feel sore, is it ok to work them out again today?
yeah I would agree that there would be no way of knowing that there is a difference, and other people might well perceive colours differently to me but they're also not physically identical to me
yeah
where is your "redness"
where does it exist?
is it a property one can deduce simply from examining your material composition
lets say one could do that perfectly
or rather, not just deduce
but is it something that reduces to it
bear in mind I am referring to your *subjective experience*
I would think that you could deduce that from my material composition, provided that i have a distinct memory of the colour red and that the memory must be encoded in my head somewhere
you could correlate it maybe
but it wouldn't tell you why you see whatever you see when you see red
why is your subjective experience what it is?
also, do you believe your cognition etc. is entirely reducible to material processes in general?
yeah I do, for some reason I just cant accept any other hypothesis just yet
there's not a fatal flaw i can see anywhere that couldn't just be attributed to the fact that humans as a whole really don't know shit about how the brain works
isn't there a fatal flaw in that it is deterministic?
it's deterministic yeah