MBTI is sorcerous also as an insight into self

yeah I understand what you mean

although I fear when reading these things that I'm constantly missing the point

no rush @J ·

don't have to come to an understanding of your own today

yeah, maybe more so @UOC , but it may not be appreciated as anything more than introspection by people with different metaphysical priors

whereas insight into others is obviously power

when starting from the premise that thinking is derived from perception, why does the fact that your thinking would be detached from reality discredit the idea? I would be happy to accept that everyone has their own slightly distorted view of what reality actually is

this is not about thinking per se, just experience

it is solely about perception, the thinking bit was related to determinism

and consciousness as solely material

lets take a different track entirely @J ·

ignoring everything just discussed

sure, I'm enjoying thinking about this anyways 😃

are you familiar with the double slit experiment?

yes

and its implications?

im majoring in physics

good, great

the observer is an irreducible part of phenomena

do you object to this statement?

im having a hard time thinking about that statement really

not quite sure what you mean

in the double slit experiment, measurement i.e. observation

alters the result

yes it does i agree

not simply as a result of some perturbation caused by measurement as a process

but the actual act of "observing" whatever it is

that's my understanding yes, because it alters the system

to your first statement

that cannot be it, per wheeler's delayed choice experiment

fuck it's been a while, let me check

I'm not a physics anything, so I may use jury-rigged explanations

but I'll try to find people who have discussed it

okay, I'll probably have to look up shit on the fly because for some reason I didn't do any of this in detail in the first year I've just done, quantum mechanics is next month

from wikipedia, per Wheeler

"The thing that causes people to argue about when and how the photon learns that the experimental apparatus is in a certain configuration and then changes from wave to particle to fit the demands of the experiment's configuration is the assumption that a photon had some physical form before the astronomers observed it. Either it was a wave or a particle; either it went both ways around the galaxy or only one way. Actually, quantum phenomena are neither waves nor particles but are intrinsically undefined until the moment they are measured."

*intrinsically undefined until the moment they are measured*

not physically perturbed by the action of measuring

okay yeah I'm with you

one possible implication of this is that the perception determines the reality