its that at every scale

yeah it has to

you can't just magically get nondeterminism from determinism

I would love to be proven wrong because I'm not a nihilist at all but thats my understanding at the moment

isn't it a contradiction that you ponder this

proven wrong, how?

you cannot be proven wrong materially

I would like your world view to be true instead of mine

I think I may have a relevant link

maybe not explanatory

but relevant

alright

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/mind-thinking-versus-brain-thinking.html

you can prove the immaterial via materialism as much as you can explain to a blind man what red is

anyway, the main point was, MBTI is insight into people, therefore it is sorcery

because consciousness is "magic"

I hope you appreciate why I didn't just say that before

after the above

MBTI is sorcerous also as an insight into self

yeah I understand what you mean

although I fear when reading these things that I'm constantly missing the point

no rush @J ·

don't have to come to an understanding of your own today

yeah, maybe more so @UOC , but it may not be appreciated as anything more than introspection by people with different metaphysical priors

whereas insight into others is obviously power

when starting from the premise that thinking is derived from perception, why does the fact that your thinking would be detached from reality discredit the idea? I would be happy to accept that everyone has their own slightly distorted view of what reality actually is

this is not about thinking per se, just experience

it is solely about perception, the thinking bit was related to determinism

and consciousness as solely material

lets take a different track entirely @J ·

ignoring everything just discussed

sure, I'm enjoying thinking about this anyways 😃

are you familiar with the double slit experiment?

yes

and its implications?

im majoring in physics

good, great

the observer is an irreducible part of phenomena

do you object to this statement?

im having a hard time thinking about that statement really

not quite sure what you mean