oh

ok

if they're in extreme pain, then ig yeah you can

but if they're able to sustain themselves without violating bodily autonomy, then their life doesn't require the consent of anyone else

I honestly think the discussion has little to do with bodily autonomy. There are a series of choices that lead to somebody becoming pregnant, including engaging in a sexual act, not using a condom, not using birth control, and numerous other things that then lead to a baby being formed. To then say "my body my choice" contradicts all of this person's previous actions when they failed to prevent the pregnancy from occurring at every single level

And once that pregnancy has occurred, and if left unimpeded this "clump of cells" would become a person with dreams, hopes, and goals, then I have an issue with terminating it based on "bodily autonomy"

yes, people do engage in unprotected sex, but that doesn't mean they choose to have a baby

If that person truly cared about bodily autonomy they would have prevented the pregnancy (of course, referring to the vast majority of abortion cases, and not the outliers)

Yes, it does. By engaging in this act they are accepting the consequences

If I go outside and rob a store, by doing so, I am accepting the consequence that I may go to jail

unless you weren't informed of the consequences

Am I choosing to go to jail? No, but it's a consequence I have accepted by choosing that action

Ignorance is not an excuse to the law, at least referring to the robbery case

are we talking about abortion?

yes, it's not an excuse to disobey the law

yeah

I would not believe that, in the vast majority of circumstances, in our modern society, a person would be clueless on the basics of human reproduction

oh fuck fetuses

first trimester hell yeah

abort that shit

yeah

if you dont want it

I would wager that the vast majority of people 12+ know that penis + vagina = baby

I think that's a pretty shitty stance to have, mostly because of how callous you sound michael

not really

It's one thing to argue bodily autonomy and another thing to say "abort that shit"

whether its a life or not

https://blogs.plos.org/dnascience/2013/10/03/when-does-a-human-life-begins-17-timepoints/

having sex (protected or not) ≠ consent to having a baby

I do not value a fetus in the first trimester

It doesn't matter if it's a life, it matters if it's a potential life, once that potential is created it is, in my mind, immoral to remove it

Robbing a store ≠ consent to going to jail

Well then jerking off is wrong

So when does life start then by your standards?

But going to jail is still a consequence that will occur

False comparison

How so?

Both are an action you are choosing to involve yourself in and, whether you like it or not, that action will have a consequence outside of your control

And no, because jerking off does not produce a baby. Sex produces a baby

The sperm is a potential child

There is no potential for life by jerking off on a tissue, no life will form on that tissue