@saturn broker

***Gives dictionary definition***
"You can't define anything >:("

"We have to take away all your civil rights and massively expand government power, so you can have 'more' freedom, guiz!"

im not even mad lmao. youre trying so hard.

@Doc Jinzo, PhD in Trap Negation you're close actually, the difference is communism is purely theoretical and is anarchic

@LC employee owned workplaces are an **expansion of government power**?

And socialism on a massive scale would mean the commune (country) would need someone to broker resources, in this case the govt.

And to ur point yes the govt is elected by the ppl so they would control the resources

But what happens when the govt decides to use its newfound control over the resources to no longer have the people be in control of said resources?

Those are free to try right now under capitalism. You should get your friends together and start one.
Say, how come those aren't all over the United States?

@Doc Jinzo, PhD in Trap Negation or just Every corporation becomes a co-op

what exactly will employees own and whats the justification for them owning something? if youre an employee at a factory do you get to own a machine? thats private ownership of property then right?

@saturn broker the employees are the foundation for the business? No, the employees would vote for representatives to sit on the board of directors

no theyre not the foundation.

They are

What you mean to say is that you are going to CONFISCATE my property, and give it to the community.

@LC Christ you're dense

you are not the most important part of the small business you work at

But not everyone in a corporation can do every job, plus they’d be too large to be a “co-op”

he thinks he's important, that's for sure

Okay I gotta go. Later.

A co-op is formed on the basis that everyone contributes so everyone reaps benefit. In small numbers this can work. In larger numbers this can’t, as you’ll have people inevitably trying to not work and game the system. It’s human nature.

That’s where the authoritarianism aspect of socialism comes in. In order to make sure people contribute so the machine won’t stop functioning, strict laws are made and penalties are enforced to make sure everyone is working while those at the top making those laws reap most of the benefit

what experience do you have with financing, taking risk, accounting, ensuring quality, buying inventory, budgeting, resolving complaints, understanding managerial processes, business intelligence etc... you probably dont. so why would you get a say in how a business is run? why should you get a say when you've sacrificed nothing to start a business.

Schools closing near me

Everyone in my town is rushing to horde supplies. I’m not joking.

same here

Well hold on Saturn there is the point to be made that people higher up in the “food chain” do need to know what it’s like lower down as not to become authoritarian themselves, so people lower down do sometimes need to be put in positions of power.

But that’s mainly solved by consulting jobs

if i work my whole fucking life to save up enough money to actually create jobs for people and start a business; only to have some sniveling little shit leech with no skills or merit try to take it over because they think its their fucking right you can bet im firing them.

It’s when you artificially try and shove people into power positions that you end up making a mess. It’s like trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. You break the frame around it in the process

lmao im actually a consultant. i agree with you tho

i wouldnt say i have any "power" though. i dont actually own part of the clients business. at the end of the day im not the one making management decisions.

But you have a certain amount of influence in those decisions

That’s another difference between our ideologies, in that to a socialist, power is mainly, if not exclusively, represented in the material, when in reality it can take many forms

bro i just dont want swedens 50% income tax

That’s why they don’t see those with power like the lgb lobby as having power, as they are in the minority physically

well and with socialism the soul focus is always power struggles.

Indeed

having influence doesnt mean i have power though. most of the employees i've worked with, even shit tier employees had much more power than i ever did. Its true you get to talk to higher ups, but if you dont work well with bottom level workers you'll never get anything done.

People always bring up Sweden and it's like... it has 10 million people and they actually work. We have 350 million and half the country doesn't want to work. It's not as hunky dory as these commies have been gaslit to believe. Things cost money and the money will eventually run out, and companies/people will leave America if we tax them 50-80%.

@Doc Jinzo, PhD in Trap Negation how could an individual game the system

Reap the benefits and put in no work

That's not what a co op is lmao