Only in the modern era can you call social liberals "conservative". The history of conservatism started off with traditional values.

That's because neocons degraded what it means to be conservative, from preserving traditional values into an ideology about intervention. After Bush Sr., the focus was on preserving the free-market economy. This has nothing to do with the historic conservative definition.

What are the traditional conservative values in your mind and are conservatives allowed to stray apart on some ideas they disagree with?

Traditional marriage, traditional gender roles, pro-life, pro-Christian moral values, rejection of consumerism.

I don't remember the conservative stance always being against consumerism

"consumerism" is a false word used to demonize capitalism

To address the second part of your question, conservative is a label which is pretty clear in it's historic definition. It's main purpose is to preserve traditional values, such as some listed above. If conservatives perpetually surrender values such as the ones listed above, then it's obvious they shouldn't be considered conservative at all.

Consumerism is a creation of the modern world. It's pretty obvious that figures such as Edmund Burke wouldn't support it. *One of the founders of conservatism as we know it.

also pro-2nd amendment, anti gun restriction

ruggedly individualistic

This bullshit railing against consumerism is some commie bullshit

consumerism is a term made up by hippies in the 1960s who hated capitalism and human industrialism

aka losers in life

Remember, if you ever feel bad or are discouraged, just wip out any dollar bill and read one of the most beautiful lines this country has:

**IN GOD WE TRUST**

Have a good day and God Bless America!

And no, consumerism isn't a false word. It's pretty obvious that today's world is controlled by exacerbated materialism. In the 50s, the consumer attitude was much more moderate, consumer spending was much lower. Yet, people lived happier and more fulfilling lives.

And anti-consumerism isn't communistic either, that just shows your lack of understanding about economic systems.

i think how much you consume is just a function of your income anyway. if i make 500k/year im buying more stuff than at 50k/yr

Exactly, that's fine. But people are so controlled by brain chemistry that they end up wasting their incomes away on trivial material. Soyboys obsess over the Nintendo Switch, Funko Pops and other gay shit.

I dont get what point you're trying to argue.

You lose me at the consumerism argument, there's pros and cons to consumerism and that point has never been a defining factor of conservatism nor neoconservativism. While Edmund Burke was pretty particular on a lot of things especially the rallying ideas built upon by traditional Judeo-Christian values, the anti-consumerism sentiment has been largely absent from conservatism since it's conception.

Consumerism is bad because of peoples bad decisions?

consumer spending was probably lower in the 50s because they had way less stuff to buy

Does it cause excess monopolization of industry?

Damn yall typing dissertations or something?

what even is consumerism

promoting interests of consumers

so catering to customers lol

@Fawx >judeo
That's because consumerism didn't exist in Burke's time, yet he was still an avid believer in fundamental Christian values. One the seven deadly sins explicitly argues against an excess indulgence in wealth, items, or foods. I would argue that Burke would not support today's consumerist culture.

@Jensen https://gyazo.com/e7f97f14d5a05027309a454a34c8530f

Oh no image preview

isn't that just a result of globalization

Ill just copy paste\ Consumerism
DescriptionConsumerism is a social and economic order that encourages an acquisition of goods and services in ever-increasing amounts. Wikipedia

Basically supply and demand.

higher GDP > more people with stuff to buy > more producers > more transactions of goods/services

Not at all @Dan🦀. "Ever-increasing amounts" is pretty indicative of what consumerism entails.

@christiam its a wiki definition

Copy and pasted

The definition is correct, your analysis of it is wrong.

How is not supply and demand.

@christiam >A very large portion Christian values stem from Judean values
You're arguing that the mere act of owning large sums of money is immoral and frankly to me that sounds like a progressive viewpoint much more than a conservative viewpoint; it's what the communists/socialists base a large portion of their moral model upon.

It's not about owning large sums of money, it's about needlessly spending all of your available income on useless products.

Well what can be done about that lol. Take away buisness?\