I did say I was moving towards it, but thank you for the sources.

No problem @🛫navytuna🛬 ζ🌹🌻

Anyways that's the problem I see with veganism. You're still using things that require animals(medicines, tires, etc) but you're *not* making use of the full animal by refusing to eat it. Think of it this way, veganism is like killing an animal, but only using the skin and fat and leaving the meat to rot because it's "inhumane" and an omniviorous lifestyle is killing and using the whole animal, including the meat, if that makes sense

But human body evolved by eating everything. If you change what you eat like that it will be bad for your body. Human body needs long time to evolve away from meat. And tbh most of the human race will not stop eating meat cos it tastes nice and don't grow boobs from it

So if everyone were to go vegan, until we find alternatives to these byproducts, if that's even possible, we'd be wasting and abusing animals more than they are now. It's more humane to make use of the whole animal by consuming it, because skin, fat, etc are all still essential ingredients in things we use in our everyday lives, we'd just be turning down the meat. That's the biggest reason why I've decided not to go vegan

Yeah. If that is all the case then I’d just try to minimize the amount of livestock required. I definitely don’t oppose using all of an animal if it shall be slain anyways.

dude, if the estrogen in plant burgers was large enough to help people transition then why wouldn’t trans people start wolfing them down

My girlfriend is a vegetarian for about 20 years, she started cos she didn't like the killing of animals. She wants to eat meat but cant. She has alot of bad health problems <:trumplaugh:666855109644386314>

I have no problem eating animals, there is no moral dilemma for me. The only moral dilemma I have is overhunting wild populations (LOOKING AT YOU CHINESE FISHERMAN)

at least she still gets some form of animal protein in the form of milk, eggs, and cheese

Ya. But still not enough

that's why if you truly do not want to eat meat, vegetarianism is totally better than veganism, but generally it's healthier to live an omnivorous lifestyle

20 or so years adds up

the best diet imo is pescatarian

L

i started raising chickens 2 years ago because I got tired of buying snail bait, I no longer have to buy snail bait and I get eggs for 3 years, next year I get chicken.

I could not raise animals that I have to kill and eat

You still get meat in the form of fish, which are more eco-friendly to farm than land animals like cows and pigs, animal protein in the form of eggs cheese and milk(cows would still be needed but not as high demand as the yare now)

but I was raised on a farm, and learned early on how fucked up it can be to get overly attached to animals. They're tools, nothing more. You wouldn't cry if you lost a wrench.

Not necessarily, certain animals like dogs serve as emotional companions as well

Dogs are man's best friend for a reason, they've evolved alongside humans, so I'd make an exception for them specifically

unless I gotta feed my family, then pickles becomes food.

I genuinely am discomforted when people refer to animals as tools. They are useful, absolutely, but tools is... Wrong.

hmmm

she's the dog in my profile pic btw, awesome dog, but I like my wife and kids more.

Sad but true tho

I mean they kind of are, but they have a heart, soul, desire, emotions, etc, which differentiates them from the wrench

all animals have those

mmhmm

even chickens. but you have to be a man, and think who's more worthy of survival, you or them?

Dog eat dog world

Us, obviously, but I'd still miss them a bit y'know? Like if it was a chicken or something i wouldn't have remorse because that's how the food chain works, but given that dogs weren't bred/raised as food animals, i'd probably hesitate

try raising ducks sometime, they're like feathered dogs, they'll follow you around, sit in your lap, do funny cute shit.

mmmm, duck

See, I don’t think of it as that, I think of it as ’They lived their life, they either die painfully naturally or they die to serve a purpose’
That doesn’t make them a tool.

and shit all over the fucking place, holy hell ducks shit like mofo's

My friend had a duck <:trumplaugh:666855109644386314> they funny

Actually, a good amount of our species' success is attributed to our relationship/taming of wolves and the eventual evolution of dogs, so I wouldn't really call them tools

They was tools tho. Think humans would of tamed them if they was not useful?

useful =/= tools

Humans are useful, they aren’t tools

my first real experience with animal attachment on the farm was when I was like 7 or 8. Old man bought 2 pigs with his brothers. Told me, "Don't go near them! They're dangerous!" But they were hella nice to me, I could take them on walks on rope even though they weighed 400lbs and could eat me in seconds. When the grass was tall in the orchard, sometimes I'd take em for walks, they'd lay down in the sun, let me lay on them.

Pigs are dangerous.