But you're the one arguing that those things should be considered religions since they're things people believe in.

yes, real religions, not garbage like believing in capitalistic companys

If you define anything that is important to people as religion then you don't get to choose what religion is.

No, I don't define it that way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hYHwkIuEMo

That is what makes a religion!

Do I have to watch the whole 22 minutes to understand what you mean?

The belief that the Product is without fault and its YOU that broke it, that there can not be anything else.

So Judaism isn't a religion because it's not the individual's fault for original sin?

I don't think I really get what you're saying here.

Nor do I think we need a new definition for religion to begin with.

We have terms like 'ideology' 'philosophy' and 'morality' that each can describe different things and to try and force them all under one umbrella with 'religion' only muddies the water between some very different concepts.

Good morals generally come from good upbringing, though. I have friends with entirely-atheist families who are friendly, altruistic, stand up against bullies and try and help people wherever they go. It just so happens that since many religions have a focus on moral goodness- meaning yes, religious people can instil good morals, but so can people without religion

Morality is independent of religion since sure, God can judge, but the actual repercussions of our actions lie in the physical domain

Or at least, repercussions we can see and demonstrate

If there is a God, fair enough, I won't be like "God doesn't exist" if I die and meet Ra or Odin or Yahweh

But for now I work under the assumption that the physical world is all there is and operate thusly

```Morality is independent of religion```
It is not. And you can prove it with China.

It is, and I can prove it through my own individual experience

As can many others

So without religion you would be an immoral person?

besides that, it is not provable that it has nothing to do with Religion as our values come from religion.

Explain to me why you think just because I'm not 100% on board with religion, I am innately an immoral person

That's untrue, my values come through my understanding of people and the physical world

No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that you are greatly influenced by Religion and you are denying it.

People are influenced by a lot of things.

I'll admit, I did have a Christian upbringing, but I disagree with a lot of the beliefs I once held and I think it makes me a more moral person

Props to you btw Stefan, you seem a lot more polite and reasonable

We're not going to just decide that murder is cool if we all decide we don't care about religion.

You are the first to say that I am polite 😉

```We're not going to just decide that murder is cool if we all decide we don't care about religion.```
In Islamic Countrys, murder can be "moral".

You're assertive but I wouldn't say you're being rude

we don't think that it is moral for various reasons.

So it sounds like religion itself isn't the answer because religion can lead to hanging gay people.

Would you be an immoral person if you had no religion though Stefan?

If you have a "bad religion", yes, of course.

That's what I was saying above with the "Fruit/Leather Jacket Religion", both are bad.

I'm not too big a fan of Christianity either because of "Original Sin", where we inherit the sin of our fathers.

To be fair, I see your point to an extent, Stefan. Religion brought the idea of Sanctity Of Life to the majority of people, for example; religion has been influential throughout history, and has been the trigger for many people considering bigger moral questions. However, I do agree with Schedrevka- most religions have points I disagree with on a moral level as well as just factual. I think being a good person can occur without faith, do you? I like to think I'm a good person, even though I'm not religious

Would you be immoral if you had no religion? Would you think there's nothing wrong with murder if you were raised without religion?

Is religion the only thing holding you back from harming others?