Belief is to hold some value or statement as self-evident

There is nothing in the universe to prove that justice is real. Even when it comes to matter vs antimatter, the universe is heavily biased towards matter. But since ancient times we have upheld justice as a cardinal virtue.

Many athiests believe the failings of communism have been that bad people attempted it, not systematic.

yeah all commies are retarded.
but good old "correlation does not imply causation"

1.) I think Donald should call the Press "JJJ" from Spider-Man

2.) ```my religion is capitalism```
That is very bad as you can see in China, where they have no Religion and would sell their mother for Money...

selling your mother for money isn't capitalism. it's just common sense.

some people preach atheism as if it's just another religion

>selling your mother for money is just common sense.
WTF

>some people preach atheism as if it's just another religion
they are not atheist by the defenition...

having a mother is not a good investment

if you can find someone who buys, then it's just common sense to sell

a lot of people with mothers end up having to pay a lot to keep them alive in an elderly home

lol

*it must suck to be unwanted accident kid with no father.*

i imagine it does

Well, I refer peoples to JBP. you may say you are not religious but I'd wager you live your live pretty closely to a religious ideal. actions do speak louder than words.

well what if the ideals originate from something different than religion in the first place?

maybe we're drawn to religious ideals for a reason

because we already resonate with them

we just need some help with having more consistency with applying them to our life, and having the principles formulated

umm, if you live in a western country the values came from Judeo-Christianity.

Communist did away with religion and they suddenly did not value life and other things.

personally I think mankind has a God shaped hole in our heart. not advocating existance of God here.
If we don't fill it with something good it will be filled by other things like feminism or the worship of the state

^

well then it sounds like my argument is compatible with your argument
im saying that if we didnt already resonate with it, then judeo christianity would have never been a thing in the first place

The basis of human life being sacred is again Judeo-Christian. A spark of the Divine in all of us so to slay a man is to commit deicide

the reason we resonate with it could be either due to how a god made us, or how we simply evolved, it doesnt matter for the sake of my argument

nah it evolved over a long time. the final human sacrifice was codified as Christ so no one else would need to make that 'physical' sacrifice

I'm not religious myself, but from what I've seen when we get rid of certain value system another one replaces it. That new value system doesn't necessarily value human life or liberty

Sam Harris has his own Value system he wants to impliment and lets assume its a great system.
He wants to tear down all religion (much like certain religions do to other faiths) regardless of its intrinsic value to society

Baby and bathwater spring to mind

@grant I think you are spot on there

My problem is the tearing down. Get people to join your value system and flourish. it will succeed in the market place of ideas if its good

This is why the Individual is the only minority that matters

Yaron brook has the same problem with religion. (I was just watching a video of him talk with Douglas Murray)

@grant in an ideal world sure however humanity isnt inherently good.

well, thats the great left/right divide. the left tends to act as if mankind is inherently good and the right acts as if the natural man is an enemy of god (yes, I just Jesus smuggled 😛 )

I like Yaron but I think he has to much faith (and I really mean faith) in capitolism and people.

Murray is my other gay crush, after Ryan Reynolds ofc

If the majority of atheists were following the value system of those guys like Sam Harris and Yaron Brooke, I might be more open to talking against religion. As I see it most atheist seem to transfer to worshipping the state. So I want to stay where we are until the next branch we grab on to actually looks steady.

it actually bothers me more that people with actual good intentions are ruining the world