Anyways, yeah, Marxism argues that everybody should willingly compassionately give their labour to others.

how is it compassion when you've forced it?

"willingly"

@Beemann Who said anything about force?

It's not willing if you demand it.

Who said anything about demand?

You did in your own words.

marxism advocates the use of force to bring about a marxist system

@>_ Quote me?

@xmrsmoothx My only concern is that some people wont willingly give their labor away

@Beemann "the use of force to bring about X system" is not the same as "the use of force as an intrinsic part of X system"

"Absolutely yes, and marxism definitely advocates for force."

I will gladly.

so how would you fix that

Damn, who can post pictures in here?

@>_ Just copy the text

how do you enforce compassionate, willing sharing when you enforced the system in the first place through violence?

Alright

@Beemann The easy answer is "read marx"

xmrsmoothxToday at 2:28 PM
I'm not really sure I can explain it any simpler: capitalism and the ideal society described earlier cannot coexist, by your own admission, because individuals cannot be held responsible for the existence of others.

the easy answer is "I did and I'm not convinced, try again"

But marx advocates for forceful acquisition of the means of production

You imply here that individuals should be held responsible for the existence of others.

he does, yes

You can't have it both ways.

@>_ "held responsible" is not identical with "use force", since by your own admission, families are "held responsible" but are not systems held via force

if I forcibly rob someone until he gives me the money when I havent used a gun, he's not a compassionate and willing participant

Either individuals should be held responsible for the existence of others, or they shouldn't.

Family's in this system under current law I admit are "held responsible" by legal obligation.

Meaning they are forced to feed their kids or will have their kids taken away.

"families are "held responsible" but are not systems held via force"

and they often fall apart as a result

@xmrsmoothx The thing I love about capitalism is that in capitalism you are forced to compassionately sell your own production or starve

We're talking about voluntary, compassionate families though.

Not families held together by force.

right and those families fall apart too

When you expand the definition of family to include everyone, you include those dysfunctional families.

which means the system only works for those who are compassionate, for those not compassionate, the system does not work.

🤔 What we're talking about when we say "families" in this particular discussion is "a group who voluntarily shares their labour with others out of implicit compassion".

the real question then is, do these people just fall out of the system, or disrupt the system

I would argue that not one family works that way

What about those who do not participate however have compassion for their immediate families and friends, are they somehow not compassionate because they don't partake in feeding a random homeless man 3 states away?