Message from @xmrsmoothx

Discord ID: 506904334756216843


2018-10-30 18:53:30 UTC  

You can not do that explicitly except for by force or willingness

2018-10-30 18:53:43 UTC  

If you do it by willingness this is the ideal structure to promote it

2018-10-30 18:53:50 UTC  

If you do it by force you are talking about traditional socialist states

2018-10-30 18:54:07 UTC  

Well... "traditional" is a bit of a stretch, but yes socialist states are good

2018-10-30 18:54:17 UTC  

interestingly, capitalism allows for the introduction of competing microsystems, including communes

2018-10-30 18:54:24 UTC  

So states that enforce obligation to others are good?

2018-10-30 18:54:26 UTC  

What about the 10s of millions who died under stalin?

2018-10-30 18:54:37 UTC  

@>_ If they progress the historical dialectic, yes

2018-10-30 18:54:50 UTC  

@Cody what about them? you didn't really make an argument or anything

2018-10-30 18:54:57 UTC  

I thought that we agreed forcing obligation to others is not ideal.

2018-10-30 18:55:11 UTC  

@>_ in an ideal society yeah, but we haven't reached that yet

2018-10-30 18:55:22 UTC  

I hope you're not arguing "we will enforce sharing until it becomes willing and compassionate"

2018-10-30 18:55:30 UTC  

because that's how it comes across honestly

2018-10-30 18:55:41 UTC  

So if you are advocating for forced obligation, you are advocating for less then ideal. In your own understanding.

2018-10-30 18:55:54 UTC  

So you are arguing that an ideal society is a society where the individual willingly submits to mob rule?

2018-10-30 18:56:19 UTC  

@>_ I'm advocating for forced obligation in order to accomplish an ideal

2018-10-30 18:56:30 UTC  

However you already know that it is less than ideal.

2018-10-30 18:56:37 UTC  

but your ideal is voluntary action, which is not found at gunpoint

2018-10-30 18:56:44 UTC  

So the ends justify the means?

2018-10-30 18:56:45 UTC  

? ? ? The forced obligation isn't the end point though.

2018-10-30 18:56:51 UTC  

Yes, the ends absolutely justify the means.

2018-10-30 18:57:06 UTC  

if I go to your house every day and demand money from you at gun point, then one day dont pull out the gun, are you a voluntary participant?

2018-10-30 18:57:08 UTC  

Has this debate been a 1 hour troll?

2018-10-30 18:57:30 UTC  

are you "compassionate" now?

2018-10-30 18:57:54 UTC  

The system you are arguing for sounds like extortion to me.

2018-10-30 18:58:01 UTC  

So sacrificing all those people who are unable or unwilling to accept responsibility by putting them through a "forced obligation social structure" is justified in achieving the ideal?

2018-10-30 18:58:09 UTC  

more along the lines of going into my house every day, demanding stuff with a gun, then eventually getting rid of the gun, then eventually not demanding in the first place.

2018-10-30 18:58:17 UTC  

Because it's become natural.

2018-10-30 18:58:24 UTC  

@>_ Yeah, for sure

2018-10-30 18:58:36 UTC  

Wait

2018-10-30 18:58:43 UTC  

Sounds horrible

2018-10-30 18:58:47 UTC  

has this really been a 1 hour troll and this person isn't even socialist?

2018-10-30 18:58:56 UTC  

that's still backed by the threat of force lol

2018-10-30 18:59:09 UTC  

@Beemann not if the state disappears afterward

2018-10-30 18:59:25 UTC  

okay so what happens if I just decide to start hoarding food?

2018-10-30 18:59:30 UTC  

I'm 100% serious. We need extreme violence and a radically unorthodox state if we want to change society.

2018-10-30 18:59:32 UTC  

does nobody enforce the marxist dreamstate?

2018-10-30 18:59:34 UTC  

I argue that sacrificing all of those people in the name of "compassion" is in fact not compassionate. But an Orwellian twist to the word "compassion."

2018-10-30 19:00:01 UTC  

@Beemann not sure why you'd do that, but generally I'm not sure why anybody would care since probably nobody else would

2018-10-30 19:00:29 UTC  

What's the debate about?

2018-10-30 19:00:42 UTC  

I think it was a troll