Message from @xmrsmoothx
Discord ID: 506904334756216843
You can not do that explicitly except for by force or willingness
If you do it by willingness this is the ideal structure to promote it
If you do it by force you are talking about traditional socialist states
Well... "traditional" is a bit of a stretch, but yes socialist states are good
interestingly, capitalism allows for the introduction of competing microsystems, including communes
So states that enforce obligation to others are good?
What about the 10s of millions who died under stalin?
@>_ If they progress the historical dialectic, yes
@Cody what about them? you didn't really make an argument or anything
I thought that we agreed forcing obligation to others is not ideal.
@>_ in an ideal society yeah, but we haven't reached that yet
I hope you're not arguing "we will enforce sharing until it becomes willing and compassionate"
because that's how it comes across honestly
So if you are advocating for forced obligation, you are advocating for less then ideal. In your own understanding.
So you are arguing that an ideal society is a society where the individual willingly submits to mob rule?
@>_ I'm advocating for forced obligation in order to accomplish an ideal
However you already know that it is less than ideal.
but your ideal is voluntary action, which is not found at gunpoint
So the ends justify the means?
? ? ? The forced obligation isn't the end point though.
if I go to your house every day and demand money from you at gun point, then one day dont pull out the gun, are you a voluntary participant?
Has this debate been a 1 hour troll?
are you "compassionate" now?
The system you are arguing for sounds like extortion to me.
So sacrificing all those people who are unable or unwilling to accept responsibility by putting them through a "forced obligation social structure" is justified in achieving the ideal?
more along the lines of going into my house every day, demanding stuff with a gun, then eventually getting rid of the gun, then eventually not demanding in the first place.
Because it's become natural.
@>_ Yeah, for sure
Wait
Sounds horrible
has this really been a 1 hour troll and this person isn't even socialist?
that's still backed by the threat of force lol
@Beemann not if the state disappears afterward
okay so what happens if I just decide to start hoarding food?
I'm 100% serious. We need extreme violence and a radically unorthodox state if we want to change society.
does nobody enforce the marxist dreamstate?
I argue that sacrificing all of those people in the name of "compassion" is in fact not compassionate. But an Orwellian twist to the word "compassion."
@Beemann not sure why you'd do that, but generally I'm not sure why anybody would care since probably nobody else would
What's the debate about?
I think it was a troll