Message from @Beemann

Discord ID: 512707618318450708


2018-11-15 19:02:05 UTC  

So life can't be a right because if someone kills you, you can't sue them :^)

2018-11-15 19:02:29 UTC  

Invariably all Rights could be taken away, quite easily.

2018-11-15 19:02:35 UTC  

They must be able to own property think which speech is a extension of this pursue happiness life liberty

2018-11-15 19:02:56 UTC  

These are all requirements of humans survival

2018-11-15 19:03:42 UTC  

Individual, exclusive property is not a survival requirement. Groups have owned property for ages

2018-11-15 19:04:13 UTC  

Sure but people who havent produced relied on the other man who did

2018-11-15 19:04:20 UTC  

Or thought

2018-11-15 19:04:46 UTC  

One can find a cave based on percepts but to build shelter he must think

2018-11-15 19:05:18 UTC  
2018-11-15 19:05:52 UTC  

The people who unfocus their mind and dont think or produce are subhuman to add to that to produce one must be able to think

2018-11-15 19:14:03 UTC  

You don't require all that much beyond the basics to survive though. That's why many traditions last as long as they do- there's no need to change them. It wasn't necessarily to build a car, for instance, even though the impact of automobiles has been massive

2018-11-15 19:14:30 UTC  

@Beemann Except it improved the quality of life

2018-11-15 19:14:51 UTC  

Which we need to survive

2018-11-15 19:14:51 UTC  

Ultimately though rights must be restrictions placed on the larger social order for the sale of the individual

2018-11-15 19:15:00 UTC  

You don't need cars to survive

2018-11-15 19:15:18 UTC  

Well its more complicated

2018-11-15 19:15:30 UTC  

Either way it improves the quality of life

2018-11-15 19:16:01 UTC  

Sure, I'm just pointing out the difference between "necessary to survive" and "an improvement"

2018-11-15 19:16:23 UTC  

I would argue that personal, exclusive property is good, but it isn't necessary for survival

2018-11-15 19:16:32 UTC  

Trace back to the fundamentals and its more than just food water and shelter

2018-11-15 19:17:01 UTC  

It's not personal property or automobiles though

2018-11-15 19:17:43 UTC  

Man must produce to survive autmobiles help him with this and provide better quality of life overall

2018-11-15 19:18:18 UTC  

"Must"
No, not really
Man desires a better quality of living and so he strives

2018-11-15 19:18:45 UTC  

Even a subhuman man will die from him being led by to his own destruction by another man or him taking his life

2018-11-15 19:19:00 UTC  

@Beemann Would you say happiness is essential to life?

2018-11-15 19:19:04 UTC  

Hell, there are even maladaptive inventions

2018-11-15 19:19:12 UTC  

I would say satisfaction is essential

2018-11-15 19:19:49 UTC  

If you trace it back mans satisfaction comes from production

2018-11-15 19:20:10 UTC  

What is produced when a man climbs a mountain?

2018-11-15 19:20:11 UTC  

Even just basic survival

2018-11-15 19:20:29 UTC  

That feeling of adrenaline cant be maintained

2018-11-15 19:20:45 UTC  

The feeling of adrenaline isn't the only reward

2018-11-15 19:21:09 UTC  

Stuff like that is more complex knowledge because alot goes on

2018-11-15 19:21:47 UTC  

Maybe just achieving a goal is all it is but can it be consistent?

2018-11-15 19:21:47 UTC  

And yet it produces satisfaction, to the point where there are people who work only to fund expeditions

2018-11-15 19:21:55 UTC  

I dont know

2018-11-15 19:23:21 UTC  

But the person also to add had to use tools in most cases man created

2018-11-15 19:23:35 UTC  

This is, FYI, why people echo "life is suffering"

2018-11-15 19:23:43 UTC  

In what way?

2018-11-15 19:23:50 UTC  

Because it is in striving and overcoming that people find satisfaction

2018-11-15 19:24:03 UTC  

Whether by creation, conquest etc