Message from @Existence is identity

Discord ID: 512710232301109248


2018-11-15 19:19:12 UTC  

I would say satisfaction is essential

2018-11-15 19:19:49 UTC  

If you trace it back mans satisfaction comes from production

2018-11-15 19:20:10 UTC  

What is produced when a man climbs a mountain?

2018-11-15 19:20:11 UTC  

Even just basic survival

2018-11-15 19:20:29 UTC  

That feeling of adrenaline cant be maintained

2018-11-15 19:20:45 UTC  

The feeling of adrenaline isn't the only reward

2018-11-15 19:21:09 UTC  

Stuff like that is more complex knowledge because alot goes on

2018-11-15 19:21:47 UTC  

Maybe just achieving a goal is all it is but can it be consistent?

2018-11-15 19:21:47 UTC  

And yet it produces satisfaction, to the point where there are people who work only to fund expeditions

2018-11-15 19:21:55 UTC  

I dont know

2018-11-15 19:23:21 UTC  

But the person also to add had to use tools in most cases man created

2018-11-15 19:23:35 UTC  

This is, FYI, why people echo "life is suffering"

2018-11-15 19:23:43 UTC  

In what way?

2018-11-15 19:23:50 UTC  

Because it is in striving and overcoming that people find satisfaction

2018-11-15 19:24:03 UTC  

Whether by creation, conquest etc

2018-11-15 19:24:14 UTC  

Thats a false dichotomy

2018-11-15 19:24:22 UTC  

In what way?

2018-11-15 19:24:48 UTC  

As man doesnt produce anything

2018-11-15 19:25:23 UTC  

Actually im not totally sure

2018-11-15 19:26:54 UTC  

Happiness is the successful state of life, pain is an agent of death. Happiness is that state of consciousness which proceeds from the achievement of one’s values. A morality that dares to tell you to find happiness in the renunciation of your happiness — to value the failure of your values — is an insolent negation of morality. A doctrine that gives you, as an ideal, the role of a sacrificial animal seeking slaughter on the altars of others, is giving you death as your standard. By the grace of reality and the nature of life, man — every man — is an end in himself, he exists for his own sake, and the achievement of his own happiness is his highest moral purpose

2018-11-15 19:27:25 UTC  

But neither life nor happiness can be achieved by the pursuit of irrational whims. Just as man is free to attempt to survive in any random manner, but will perish unless he lives as his nature requires, so he is free to seek his happiness in any mindless fraud, but the torture of frustration is all he will find, unless he seeks the happiness proper to man. The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live.

2018-11-15 19:27:41 UTC  

Could mountain climbing be a irrational whim maybe?

2018-11-15 19:28:00 UTC  

But I guess it more of a personal level so im not sure

2018-11-15 19:28:03 UTC  

One can be happy in the society of A Brave New World

2018-11-15 19:28:22 UTC  

Not if it doesnt correspond with his values

2018-11-15 19:28:33 UTC  

And if it does? Is it then the highest good?

2018-11-15 19:28:47 UTC  

No because life is the ultimate standard

2018-11-15 19:29:14 UTC  

Everyone lives. Crime is low, food is taken care of

2018-11-15 19:29:55 UTC  

Okay well now man pursues his happiness

2018-11-15 19:30:05 UTC  

That is the moral thing to do

2018-11-15 19:30:34 UTC  

How he achieves it is through values which are the means

2018-11-15 19:31:37 UTC  

This is, fwiw, one reason why Rand is forced into an objective standard of morality, because otherwise the content automaton achieves her goal

2018-11-15 19:32:43 UTC  

What do you mean?

2018-11-15 19:33:53 UTC  
2018-11-15 19:49:10 UTC  

If your only goal is achievement of your own values then your values have to be sufficiently aspirational. Nietzsche does a similar thing

2018-11-15 19:50:41 UTC  

Like maybe I find true happiness in working at McDonalds and using the money to buy anime figurines. This isn't especially hard to achieve and will inevitably lead to stagnation if done en masse

2018-11-15 19:51:13 UTC  

Sure

2018-11-15 19:51:46 UTC  

I dont know if this can be defined as a actual value but it will lead to stagnation

2018-11-15 19:52:09 UTC  

Well you could value privacy, nonintervention and social seclusion

2018-11-15 19:52:26 UTC  

Or maybe the way in which you fight for higher values is to remove your contribution from society

2018-11-15 19:52:42 UTC  

A sort of NEET Galt