Buycotts will work int he short term, but ultimately, people will need to take the fight to Sleeping Giants and Media Matters.

when you say "take the fight to ___" what tactic are you proposing? i also suggest that the right do not use the same tactics the left employ, nor whatever this "fight dirty" you mentioned implys. if the lefts tactics are the only tactics that can work, they've already won, you cant beat an expert at their own game, simply trying gives them an advantage because once they've seen your going to play their game they can then get on top of that and start taking you seriously tactically, currently they don't do that.

i've proposed 2 tactics, the counter boycott which is mostly defensive, which your right only works short term and its mostly damage control because it wont always work. ive also proposed promotion directly toward advertisers and companies on the behalf of voices they agree with. this tactic is a bit harder for conservatives to get behind because it seems to be against the laissez faire of the market that is almost a religion in some conservative circles but i personally think that shit should be fought against itself and if anything this tactic is a positive one rather than a negitive one as the left often utilizes.

problem with the "high road" ideology: IF the left was the first to "fight dirty" (depending on your definitions), then whatever tactics they are using give them an inherent advantage, otherwise they wouldn't use it. We (the rest of the political spectrum) are all fighting a catch-up game trying to make up for the disadvantage we now have that they've imposed on us. If there's a "morally superior" solution, that would be optimal, since the far left's idea is to claim we're immoral and thus discredit our whole ideology based on that one strawman premise. Short of that, we might have to engage in the same tactics just to balance the scales. This isn't a game, this is ideological combat for the basic fabric of society. Games are meant to be played, and have rules. Combat is meant to be won, and we're not doing a good job of that (I hate using us V them rhetoric, but that's really what it comes down to).

we do have an advantage, however. We didn't cheat first. they've trapped themselves. How many times have we seen them using underhanded tactics? if we can document and provide evidence of it happening, then when they come railing against us claiming "That's not fair, you're cheating at the political game" we have legitimate evidence that they're calling themselves out as well. Do I think we should use EVERY tactic the left uses? absolutely not, some are so bad that they should be completely demonized and avoided, but if they're not going to fight on the debate floor and would rather demolish the building, why are we still standing at the podium with a wrecking ball flying at our heads?

the problem with the problem with the "high road" ideology is it implys your opponents chose not to take it and implys its your choice to be on it as well. that thought in itself muddys the waters in terms of finding an effective tactic in politics because the conservative group are high road by their very nature. its not a choice by conservatives to take the high road its our culture, in order to be a conservative your natural tendency are toward honesty and decency, anyone who argues otherwise has a shit ton of evidence to bulk against and the only examples of the otherwise would be political groups who only masquerade as conservative in the eye of the majority conservatives.

and yes of course the left wouldn't be fighting dirty unless it was the most advantageous tactic for them, that doesn't mean its the most advantageous strategy in a the larger scale, it may be for the left (it might not even be for the left) but theres certainly no guarantee that the right betraying its natural instincts would then manage to compete the same way as the left does especially when theres no expectation of them to do so (and you might argue surprises are good but theres incredible difference between being surprised and disappointed)

what are these underhanded tactics either of your are proposing? your proposing a stratagy not a tactic, your suggesting what we need to do is act differently without giving a how, and i stand by my assertion that the novice doing something they are reluctant to do will spectacularly fail at attempting to play the master's game. as for the suggestion that taking the high road is an immature perspective on the politicultural war i believe thats your own inherent bias coming through mixed with left wing propaganda from the world wars and the us military strategy from that point on word (which hasent been effective btw). that idea that is all is fair in love and war, which fails to address what your actually fighting for, the means do not always justify the ends when the means is what your actually fighting to save. to sacrifice your principles in such a conflict is to lose in a different fashion.

the high road does one great thing for you politically so long as you manage to maintain a voice in politics, it keeps you from making a retard out of yourself. this is why i propose tactics that dont make the conservatives look like tards even if they fuck it up, sure its playing safe but its also playing to their strength.

yes, I agree with that, my concern is they're trying to take the voice away in the first place

The tactics you use have to match the goal you want, ultimately. The "left" wants to get rid of most of these systems, so destructive tactics are A-OK

Once there's nothing else working, they can advocate their shitty non solutions

If you don't want idpol though, for instance, you can't then turn around and use idpol to fight it

would be a good idea to have a stratagy beyond "win against the left" so you make a good point bee

You can pressure them to hold themselves accountable to their own ruleset

I believe that everything is a series of choices, and yes that colors my opinion. I also believe in reactive policy, which is exactly that ^

But going beyond that strengthens the tactic

even my more proactive tactic is ultimately defensive when its spirit is simply "dont lose"

Right. So these idpol commies know roughly what they want, and don't sweat the details

we give them the details and hold them to their own standard

then they see what the problem is

That's been tried. It only sometimes works

not hard enough

though i think the idea of promotion of conservative voices by the masses going to potential business supporters has the potential to go beyond "dont lose" counter boycots dont

It has to be done in the right setting over a long period of time

You might also just end up with more rigid pillarization, to be fair

this is true

I just think that a "don't lose" strategy always loses

This is, FYI, why I advocate some of the things I do. Like consumers yeeting twitter

Decentralization of platforms, better information networks

For all the praise heaped on twitter for online activism and whistleblowing it's basically like searching through piles of shit for flakes of gold

well i also dont exactly fault the predictions that a lot of conservative voices have where were facing a change in the future that no matter what is done now the left will lose. but i also dont like relying on potential inevitability.

I'm not a big fan of letting the cards fall where they may in total. It works for some (limited) things

waiting for them to collapse in on themselves is great and all, I just want to push them a little

I'm a mixed tactics kinds guy really

Ignore these things, fight those things, accelerate that shit there

twitters method of activism is signal boosting basicly. while we call the part of the left that is doing most of the activism the "loud minority" they are still thousands upon thousands of people who all come together at the same time and appear to be people that corporations should listen to

Like the bans ultimately make the platforms weaker

Which is probably why they get so iffy about them

people use your service because other people use your service
ban people they came for
???
profit

honestly if you want to be an accelerationist really the left is still doing you favors, you just have to wait for them to become so unbarible and also wait for the resources globalism relys upon to dry up then you mass organize a violent government reform

Right which is why I'm not for accelerationism on all fronts

only on some

Just on fronts where I feel they're making a huge mistake

strategic fronts