Message from @Deleted User
Discord ID: 582830886358220800
Gold standard time
Stop listening to Keynes he's bad for you
okay but you dont get how government revenues work in socialism do you
lets start from the top
you know what happens when you nationalise big companies?
*governments control its profits*
and since youll have a shitload of SOEs, you dont actually have to increase debt to get more government revenue, *you will naturally have more revenue from the SOEs*
when i refer to higher wages, *im talking about higher wages with respect to inflation*
The problem with nationalization is you are essentially making the business a monopoly. Completely exempt from all forms of competition.
you know why competition is good?
Because it makes businesses have to conform to consumer demand or else they will lag behind and eventually fail. With nationalization you also run into the handshake problem.
right on, but guess what
in market socialism, *not all businesses have to be government owned*
ie *competition still exists*
you heard of co-operatives bud? for a start, but also in demsoc, you can allow for SMEs to be privately owned
and when the SMEs become large enough, you mandate mutualisation or nationalisation
I'm fine with Co-ops existing but I'd prefer if everything was private currently the government doesn't really like Co-ops.
can i just reiterate a very simple point
when the government owns a company, the entire population shares in its profits
a private company shares its profits *amongst a small band of shareholders*
why the fuck, are you arguing for such a system that keeps profits segregated?
unless youre actually wealthy, *you dont benefit from this system*
Because not everyone deserves the same amount plus business owners are quite skilled and have to be quite good at there job. From the marketing, to the sales, to new products it's a pretty difficult job. Plus investors are taking a huge risk.
did i say everyone deserves the same amount?
you know market socialism has inequality built into it right?
you dont actually, since you cited that as a reason
thats a principle of communism, not DemSoc
am i arguing for paying managers (ceos and board directors) less?
Oh you're talking about the LTV here?
no i think that meme is debunked
It's been in a grave for a while thank you menger
im not actually arguing for board members to be paid less, theyre workers too
my issue is that shareholders do *nothing but provide capital and vote on directors* yet they take *most of the profits*
They're taking a risk they can loose a lot of money
yes, and im happy for those who take risk to be compensated
but in the case where it leads to an outcome of ridiculous inequality, we need to impose restrictions to cap the snowball effect
some inequality is good, absolutely
unlimited inequality is indefensible
so the first place to look is the shareholders
@Green Syndicalism demsoc sounds like it sucks! ...National Socialism is the only good form of socialism because it works to benefit the people and the nation.