Because it makes businesses have to conform to consumer demand or else they will lag behind and eventually fail. With nationalization you also run into the handshake problem.

right on, but guess what

in market socialism, *not all businesses have to be government owned*

ie *competition still exists*

you heard of co-operatives bud? for a start, but also in demsoc, you can allow for SMEs to be privately owned

and when the SMEs become large enough, you mandate mutualisation or nationalisation

I'm fine with Co-ops existing but I'd prefer if everything was private currently the government doesn't really like Co-ops.

can i just reiterate a very simple point

when the government owns a company, the entire population shares in its profits

a private company shares its profits *amongst a small band of shareholders*

But you still run into the handshake problem

why the fuck, are you arguing for such a system that keeps profits segregated?

unless youre actually wealthy, *you dont benefit from this system*

Because not everyone deserves the same amount plus business owners are quite skilled and have to be quite good at there job. From the marketing, to the sales, to new products it's a pretty difficult job. Plus investors are taking a huge risk.

did i say everyone deserves the same amount?

you know market socialism has inequality built into it right?

you dont actually, since you cited that as a reason

thats a principle of communism, not DemSoc

am i arguing for paying managers (ceos and board directors) less?

Oh you're talking about the LTV here?

no i think that meme is debunked

It's been in a grave for a while thank you menger

im not actually arguing for board members to be paid less, theyre workers too

my issue is that shareholders do *nothing but provide capital and vote on directors* yet they take *most of the profits*

They're taking a risk they can loose a lot of money

yes, and im happy for those who take risk to be compensated

but in the case where it leads to an outcome of ridiculous inequality, we need to impose restrictions to cap the snowball effect

some inequality is good, absolutely

unlimited inequality is indefensible

so the first place to look is the shareholders

@Green Syndicalism demsoc sounds like it sucks! ...National Socialism is the only good form of socialism because it works to benefit the people and the nation.

I'm more of a capitalist myself but I get where the Germans were coming from.

100%

And to hell with all your bull crap antics.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/japan-stabbing-three-dead-including-child-after-knife-attack-in-kawasaki/ar-AAC0npf?ocid=spartanntp

'Most of the victims were said to have attended a school founded by Soeurs de la Charite de Quebec, an organisation of Catholic nuns in Quebec City in Canada.'

Huh...

Really makes you think.

i wonder who could've done this?

hmmm...

https://youtu.be/HBIkj6UdlQg