Then how is it good?

Good is subjective

No absolute for good, or for anything, because God doesn't exist

Ive said that

If you do something against someone to benefit yourself, if you succeed, it's good. If you fail, it's bad.

Its a spectrum a graph there is always worse or better

Only with God can an act always be bad even if you don't get caught. Even if the entire world never knows about it.

If you succeed and they kill you its bad

That's not success

Go to jail, get killed, etc is all failure

Then you are speaking in absolutes

As it may not happen immediately

It is because it throws your future into increased uncertainty that it is bad

This is in addition to the harm you also caused the person

And if that uncertainty is unfounded, it's not bad

And that in many situations the same act on your self is bad

Harm to another person doesn't matter any more than smashing a bug

It is

Because it throws your future into more uncertainty

And increases your risk of harm

How is that anything to do with morals, though?

You're confusing risk with moral

Because my morals dont need god to work like those that are arbitrarily forcing their moral definition on me

Like what Ragnarok inferred, risk isn't morals

Turn it around, and use the Catholic Crusaders as an example, a misunderstood group of people that are often invoked here.

They had no reward. Some battles had a 90% casualty rate

To crusade you had to buy your own stuff. In modern terms, imagine some guy from France having to buy his own tank and get himself to the middle east to fight ISIS

By your logic, Ehzek, if someone committed mass murder, but through it became *successful*, does that mean they're in the right? That they're "morally" fine?

There was no salary

No benefits

Nothing but a realistic chance of death

Reference the graph

Were they wrong to do so?

It was good for society

It isnt good to force it but its a choice that can be made that is moral

How was it good?

Good for their society

It's essentially a complicated way of committing suicide

To further the good of the society by your own will

When Muslim aggression began, what we now call Turkey was under Byzantine Christian Orthodox rule